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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:19 pm 
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So looking thought the rulebook FAQ i finally found the answer to some quiries ive had about fortifcation cover saves.

Page 8, 3rd last question of page.
Q. What is the armour value of battlements? (p95)
A: Battlements have no armour value as they are not a
building. They serve to protect any models on the roof of
the building in the same way as barricades and walls (see
page 104), offering a 4+ cover save.


So models on the actuall tabletop obsecured by the fortification get a 3+ cover save but models on top of a skyshield, fort of redemption and bastion only recieve a 4+ cover save (furleds up on the skyshield, which give you a 4++ any way) due to them being the same as wall/barricades.

Just though id make this public and up for discussion to see if i have interpreted the FAQ properly, which i believe i have as its printed that way in word.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Quote:
Page 8, 3rd last question of page.
Q. What is the armour value of battlements? (p95)
A: Battlements have no armour value as they are not a
building. They serve to protect any models on the roof of
the building in the same way as barricades and walls (see
page 104), offering a 4+ cover save.

So models on the actuall tabletop obsecured by the fortification get a 3+ cover save but models on top of a skyshield, fort of redemption and bastion only recieve a 4+ cover save
Yes to the 4+ on the battlements of the Fort an Bastion, but not the skysheild. Fortresses and Bastions have battlements that are distinct in their rules from the enclosed buildings, but Skyshields are just fortifications so give 3+ cover.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:12 pm 
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I think it is sometimes taken as a 3+ because they are called fortifications and on the page in the BRB it goes something like fortifications/ bunkers 3+ cover save on the cover save page. Either way , with my skyshield, I'll take advantage of getting the better save than I already have with most of my stuff :D


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Page 8, 3rd last question of page.
Q. What is the armour value of battlements? (p95)
A: Battlements have no armour value as they are not a
building. They serve to protect any models on the roof of
the building in the same way as barricades and walls (see
page 104), offering a 4+ cover save.

So models on the actuall tabletop obsecured by the fortification get a 3+ cover save but models on top of a skyshield, fort of redemption and bastion only recieve a 4+ cover save
Yes to the 4+ on the battlements of the Fort an Bastion, but not the skysheild. Fortresses and Bastions have battlements that are distinct in their rules from the enclosed buildings, but Skyshields are just fortifications so give 3+ cover.
but Skyshields are just fortifications... not in the terrain type they are listed as 'unique' and if they give a 3+ whats the point of the 4++ the furlings are simply a wall/barricade ???

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"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:54 pm 
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The sides dont give cover to some large models
The sides dont give any save vs barrage
They may not give cover vs aircraft
And most importantly of all, while models on top get a 4++ or 3+ cover, enemy models being shot at by models that are on the skyshield might also be 25% obscured and get a free 3+ cover save too.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Thats not even a reply to the terrain type its listed as...

but thanx for point out the obviously uses for a skyshield...

can u tell me what the furlings of a skyshield are... a wall or barricade or some magical thing in-between people that looking excactly like a wall/barricade (almost like all other terrain types that models stand on or behinf in fortifications)

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"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:19 am 
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Ok seeming there was no more replies tonight heres some references to take into account.

Terrain type for skyshield is unique. page 107 of the rule book has unique terrain rules (which doesnt cover the skyshield in regards to cover saves) or any relative terrain so far released by GW.

The skyshield has its own rules for shielded configuration (you get a 4++) doesnt say anything about cover save and has a unique terrain type. It also states how models move in relation to terrain (on top is open terrain and to move off is difficult terrain with the exception of a few unit types)

Id agree you get a 3+ cover save if obscured by the legs/support structure of the skyshield. But the shielded version has its own save in print and the terrain type to show its not like other terrain as it has its own rules in print. (page 115)

If anything id say you get a 5+ cover save for being obscured buy the furlings when up or down as they have a terrain type that doesnt relate to any 3+ or 4+ cover/terrain discriptions in the rule book.

If youd like to state rules and page numbers to why this is all wrong please show us :) cause as rules written i cant see how this is wrong with all the above points ???

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"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:32 am 
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Problem is Neil is that it's a point of view. GW has not as yet given clear rules in this department and let's be clear your realy just talking about the skyshield ( let's not go into the reasons why hey :oops: ) . So with this it's a case of cherry picking the bits from the rule book that support our own opinion and wants. A good example is the grav gun debacle no saves for vehicles even when on a skyshield. Now that is a rule in your white scars favour but your not crying about how that rule is wrong. This is your post about fortifications and saves why not talk about how that rule has come up. I mean as far as I know the only time you don't get your invol save is when the rule states no saves of any kind aloud. Now who's cherry picking ?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:56 am 
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I was actually against the grav-guns ruling when I found out u didnt get saves for vechiles go check it out...

And I have a skyshield in my new list.

Its fine for others to cherry pick the (censored) they want and say thats the way it was intended and be cause of wording thats how it works. At less I have points to go off for my argument do you ???

Just want to make sure I play it right.

Plus I though you got 3+ covers on the other two cause thats how ppl have played it (faq has been out for awhile) so some ppl just clearly take every advantage they can get id prefer using the actual rules n not being a douche. (Not calling anyone a douche its a Midland term of endearment)

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"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:47 am 
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I guess the big question is if independent characters can join infiltrating :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:53 am 
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Lol to true bro =p

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-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:18 am 
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Alright, here comes the comprehensive version :D

The following are Fortificatons:

Aegis Defence Line (FORTIFICATION 50 POINTS) - Page 114
Terrain Type: Battlefield Debris (Defence Lines)

Skyshield (FORTIFICATION 75 POINTS) - Page 115
Terrain Type: Unique

Imperial Bastion (FORTIFICATION 75 POINTS) - Page 116
Terrain Type: Medium Building (AV14)

Fortress of Redemption (FORTIFICATION 220 POINTS) - Page 117
Terrain Type: 3x Small buildings (AV14) one Medium building (AV14)


Fortifications give a 3+ cover save.
(Cover chart on Page 18)
The aegis does not give 3+ because it has two special rules: Battlefield Debris and Defence Lines

[] Defence lines follow all the same rules for barricades and walls except that a unit that decides to Go to Ground behind a defence line gains +2 to its cover save, rather than +1 - Page 104
[] If a model is in cover behind a barricade or wall, it has a 4+ cover save. - Page 104

Battlements do not give 3+ cover because their rules were changed by an FAQ (prior to that point, they would have given 3+ by default)
"Page 8, 3rd last question of page.
Q. What is the armour value of battlements? (p95)
A: Battlements have no armour value as they are not a
building. They serve to protect any models on the roof of
the building in the same way as barricades and walls (see
page 104), offering a 4+ cover save."

The Skyshield is not Battlefield Debris and Defence Lines, and does not have a battlement (battlements are defined on page 95). This leaves their classification in its initial state: a Skyshield is a Fortification.
It gives an invulnerable save to units on top as per Page 115, and otherwise gives 3+ cover as would any Fortification (page 18).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:22 am 
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Quote:
I guess the big question is if independent characters can join infiltrating :oops:
Took the words right outta my mouth. I'd actually typed up that response and was about to hit 'submit', but thought better of it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:42 am 
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ICs don't give fortifications infiltrate due to the order of events during deployment, instead they confer outflank. The Fortress of Redemption has to come in from a side edge (unless combined with Positional Relay or similar rule that allows the player to pick any edge).

8)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:45 am 
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So really the skyshield is the only real fortification in the game and heaps better then FoR or Bastion.

Looks like we need a seperate faq just for skyshields yay cant wait.

PS I have a skyshield in my new list hint the reason I wanted clarification oh well looks like my defens3 just got betta.

_________________
"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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