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 Post subject: Question on Void Shields
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:10 pm 
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Couple of questions that came up in a game today.

Q1: If you glance / penetrate a void shield, does the shot hit the original target or is it "spent" on the shield?

Q2: If Night Fight is in effect, and the shot comes from (say) 25" away, will the void shield gain a Night Fight save?

Q3: Will void shields become the new black / aegis defence line of fortifications? ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:16 pm 
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Q1- Spent

Q2- I would say no, as it is not a model, so never gains the stealth or shrouded rule. But I could imagine it being played either way.

Q3- Hell no. Imagine this scenario, 10 Space Marines behind 3 Void Shields. I lob a single D pie plate into the unit and hit 6. The first 3 hits instantly take down all 3 void shields, and then the last 3 hits evaporate some space marines. Something pretty similar happens if you fire a Riptide too. I know even my Wave Serpents dont mind, each void shield basically just negates 3ish shots from a serpent shield for a single turn only.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:23 pm 
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Yup, void shields suck if you can get lots of hits with a blast weapon!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:53 am 
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Q3- Hell no. Imagine this scenario, 10 Space Marines behind 3 Void Shields. I lob a single D pie plate into the unit and hit 6. The first 3 hits instantly take down all 3 void shields, and then the last 3 hits evaporate some space marines. Something pretty similar happens if you fire a Riptide too. I know even my Wave Serpents dont mind, each void shield basically just negates 3ish shots from a serpent shield for a single turn only.
So void shields trigger for every model hit? I thought it was only for the original target.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:04 am 
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You hit models, not units with blast weapons and the shield rules tell us the hit is taken by the shield. Thus a blast that hits 3 models can potentially remove 3 shields

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:21 am 
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Which makes inbuilt Void Shields on Titans amazing. But makes the terrain piece ones fair and balanced. I still think theyre very good, and worth running in some armies, but I dont think theyre broken. They do an absolute number on some armies (anyone expecting to remove armour with grav weapons).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:00 am 
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I think this is open to interpretation. The rule says a shooting attack coming fom out side the shield hits the shield instead. I have taken the rule that the shield is taking the hit cos the shield covers all units under it so is one target in its self. The rule says nothing about hitting multiple targets and thus hitting multiple shields. It does say it hits the shield from a shooting attack.



If this rule is use the way you guys are interpreting it then all the out cry from outcast is definitely justified. The game will just be a one sided affair for the d weapon player, remove any point of tactics and the game will just suck for who is on the reviving end.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:18 pm 
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I see the terrain shields working the same way as the other guys have stated...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Well I guess Gary will have to make ruling on this. This will just force list building to go a certain way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Yep stronghold assault is ok but if their is Dweapons around those choices r a waste of points... Besides maybe a tone of bastion or FoR to hide behind so D weapons can see u

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:34 pm 
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The problem with blasts Bruce is that you must place the template, scatter it and determine hits to see who might be in the shield range. I can see no reason - in the rules or in the fluff - why that blast that would hit and kill 10 men would not still inflict similar harm to shields

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:16 pm 
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Oh I agree that it's not clear exactly. I take the rule that the hit, hits the shield as the shield is one big unit. A 12inch projection that covers everything under it. Much like a unit within a vehicle . Yes this ruling would dull down the massive first turn effect , which I think it's supposed to do.

If the rule works the way you guys are saying then list building will go the way of bring as many d weapons as you can.

Neil the problem with taking all the buildings as you are suggestion is that the models with d weapons can most of the time see over them or have the moment within a turn to be able to see over them and two those buildings are a lot of points that will get wrecked on turn one from those d weapons and then have very little value.

Mike I think you know how devastating 4 d weapon blast are per turn plus all the other firepower eldar bring and you know this would seriously dull down that effect. This would force you to maybe come forward and potentially put your forces into harms way.

Besides if this is the way Gary rules it then like I said it will force list building to go in a certain direction plus with different deployment to the game me and nick had last night it is still possible to achieve more or less the same sort of effect that I had. Ie I had my (censored) real close together in the center of the table so a blast marker could get over lapping of everything including all the void shield generators. Baneblade stake up lots of room so ....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:35 pm 
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If the rule works the way you guys are saying then list building will go the way of bring as many d weapons as you can.
To be fair, my gut feeling is that D Weapons will be allowed in something like 10-25% of tournaments, while Void Shield Generators will be more like 50-75% of tournaments. So there is going to be more times when Void Shields are allowed and D weapons arent. Does mean that each tournament will have different balance issues. But that does keep things fresh, which is good, as long as its not scaring people off.

Already lots of big tournaments (ATC ETC) are disallowing Escalation entirely, and Stronghold Assault is just there as a rulebook errata and all the new buildings are banned.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
If the rule works the way you guys are saying then list building will go the way of bring as many d weapons as you can.
To be fair, my gut feeling is that D Weapons will be allowed in something like 10-25% of tournaments, while Void Shield Generators will be more like 50-75% of tournaments. So there is going to be more times when Void Shields are allowed and D weapons arent. Does mean that each tournament will have different balance issues. But that does keep things fresh, which is good, as long as its not scaring people off.

Already lots of big tournaments (ATC ETC) are disallowing Escalation entirely, and Stronghold Assault is just there as a rulebook errata and all the new buildings are banned.
True but I can tell you that this conversation plus the game I had with nick last night has already made me change my mind on what I will bring to janissaries. Cos nick will even tell you that our game last night would have been over with on turn two with him winning if we didn't play the way we did. As it was it was a battle to the very end


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:22 pm 
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I agree - I'm in the camp that is hoping that Void Shields are as we played yesterday (a blast is a single shot that is spent if it beats the AV12).

If not for that, the 4x D-Weapons would have owned that game from the get go.
Quote:
To be fair, my gut feeling is that D Weapons will be allowed in something like 10-25% of tournaments, while Void Shield Generators will be more like 50-75% of tournaments. So there is going to be more times when Void Shields are allowed and D weapons arent. Does mean that each tournament will have different balance issues. But that does keep things fresh, which is good, as long as its not scaring people off.
True, and I expect after Janissaries WA events may go the same way. Still, I think kudos on Gary for giving it a crack.

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