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 Post subject: Space marine reliquary..
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Hello

I have searched this site and have found this question asked only once before, and not answered. But i just gotta know...

If i select a Space Marine Chapter Master/Captain, can i take both a Burning Blade AND a Shield Eternal?

I used to sit in the "No!" camp, as the way its worded in the book, but in list building discussion today this has popped up again, with my opinion on the matter changing to "I plain just dont blimmin know!".

For the record, the debate (if you could even call it that) was settled by (an attendee) pointing out that this load-out was perfectly fine at the ETC. Also there is no mention of this in the Marine Codex (or the other Marine books for that matter)

Cheers, Zila

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Also this question is not addressed in any of the FAQs from GW. Not even the CSM, DA, or SW, in regards to their relics.

Also, Malignant, is it possible to have a ruling on this in regards to Ultimates 40k?
Apologies for the double posting.

Zila.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Well I took the burning blade and shield eternal last ultimates. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:24 pm 
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I know you did :-P
Feeling a lil guilty in regards to blocking you from it in last weekend's game...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:10 pm 
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I don't see any reason you shouldn't be able to.

The "Only one of each" refers to each individual item (so only one Burning Blade per Army), not only one of the 6 Relics may be chosen.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Really? It's actually worded pretty well in the book. It's a limit of one of each relic. Could take the burning blade, the shield eternal and the armor indomitus if you wanted.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:57 pm 
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Actually its about the words used.

As Ranged and Melee weapons options for characters say they can replace bolt pistol and/or melee weapon with one of the following.

The Relic section say a model may replace One of their weapons for One of the following. Which by the wording used means only one can be selected per model.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:31 am 
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Problem with that logic is there is no bold in the codecies, ergo, its open to interpretation. Another discussion of ROI v RAW?

Also, to combat this issue i have sent an email to GW FAQs enquiring about this, hopefully i hear something back.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:52 am 
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I used bold so its clear for people to see the word 'One'. As it says One weapon can be replaced for one of the options (with side notes that some options do not replace a weapon) mean only one can be selected per model. Its not a RAW thing its an English thing.

RAI are for people trying to bend things they don't like or to their advantage, RAW is how its written.

If it was worded like the range and melee weapon entry, (A model may replace it's bolt pistol and/or melee weapon) they yes you could take 2 Relics, but it says replace one for one.

It's pretty clear.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:49 am 
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Also, other codex may have different stipulations or limits - these are not relevant to this codex issue.

Intent is to open to interpretation, as written is clear

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:25 am 
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So which is it Massaen? Can take 2 on the one character? Or cant?
The entry can be read two ways, one for one, (bolt pistol being one weapon and chainsword being another one weapon) as several people see it, or just swap a wepon for one total, as per Neil's viewpoint (Which means if you took the armour, you couldn't take a relic weapon also. I know it doesn't replace a weapon, but, it is ONE choice).

What i'm getting at is:- How do GW intend this to be read?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:01 am 
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Rules as written its only one per character. As Outcast said, each character can swap ONE weapon.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:07 pm 
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i can understand both sides of the argument
Quote:
The Relic section say a model may replace One of their weapons for One of the following. Which by the wording used means only one can be selected per model.
There is outcasts viewpoint on it but

You could read this as being a limit that a single model cannot swap a single weapon for multiple relics, ie i will swap my chainsword for a burning blade and a shield, but while they have multiple weapons they rinse and repeat any one weapon for any one relic.

like it has been said it is open for interpretation. one may be the obvious interpretation for some, the other may be the obvious interpretation for others.

the simple fact is with the sentence as it is written a model are limited to swapping 1 weapon for 1 relic. BUT the way I read it there is limiting you from doing this multiple times for the same model.

NOTE: i have not checked the codex this is based on outcasts' post of the rule.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Quote:
Rules as written its only one per character. As Outcast said, each character can swap ONE weapon.
This is my ruling for Ultimates purposes.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Thank you to Malignant for clarification on this. This is exactly what I was aiming for in opening this topic.
Personally its how I have always played it, and as such this ruling brings no change for myself. I was very interested in hearing what the greater community had to say and how they had been playing it.

Again, thanks

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