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40K Ultimates - Rules Discussions - Page 20 - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Matt why did you play with the grav guns ignoring inv saves?
Because I am a sucker for punishment :D
It's how we're playing it at the Ultimates.
I was referring to non vehicle units.

So a terminator would still an inv save but a dread knight wouldn't?
They both will.
A dreadknight is a MC. (It has a wound inflicted, therefore, gets a save)

A dreadnaught won't.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Which vehicles have an inv save?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Eldar war walkers, Helldrakes, anything near a Dark Angel Power field generator or Kustom Force Field.

And maybe some SoB vehicles? I remember something about rhino's with a 6++ in the new dex.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Which vehicles have an inv save?
Contemptor Dreadnoughts from 30K also have them

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Ohh, and DE Venoms have a 5++ a standard

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Anything on a skyshield landing pad.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Eldar war walkers, Helldrakes, anything near a Dark Angel Power field generator or Kustom Force Field.

And maybe some SoB vehicles? I remember something about rhino's with a 6++ in the new dex.
All SoB tanks have a 6++ from their Shield of Faith.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Matt why did you play with the grav guns ignoring inv saves?
Because it's how the rules are currently written. :D
It's how we're playing it at the Ultimates.
Fixed that for you Matt. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Matt why did you play with the grav guns ignoring inv saves?
Because it's how the rules are currently written. :D
It's how we're playing it at the Ultimates.
Fixed that for you Matt. :wink:
Too kind, too kind :D

I did find some new information on the Invulnerable save aspect though, while optimistically looking on GW to see if they'd given us a new FAQ (Spoiler alert: they haven't)

The argument vehicles that have invulnerable saves taking them against grav guns is that there is no pen or glance, just an immobilisation and Hull point removal.

It turns out Vehicles can take Invulnerable save against immobilisation and hull point removal results that aren't caused by pens or glances. For example the 5++ invulnerable save from a flickerfield can even be taken against dangerous terrain (which immobilises, removes 1HP, but doesn't cause a glance or pen)
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... PRIL13.pdf

Sufficient precedent? Not sure, but it's news to me. Learn something new every day.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Matt why did you play with the grav guns ignoring inv saves?
Because it's how the rules are currently written. :D
It's how we're playing it at the Ultimates.
Fixed that for you Matt. :wink:
Is this sarcasm or has there been a change in the ruling ?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Too kind, too kind :D

I did find some new information on the Invulnerable save aspect though, while optimistically looking on GW to see if they'd given us a new FAQ (Spoiler alert: they haven't)

The argument vehicles that have invulnerable saves taking them against grav guns is that there is no pen or glance, just an immobilisation and Hull point removal.

It turns out Vehicles can take Invulnerable save against immobilisation and hull point removal results that aren't caused by pens or glances. For example the 5++ invulnerable save from a flickerfield can even be taken against dangerous terrain (which immobilises, removes 1HP, but doesn't cause a glance or pen)
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... PRIL13.pdf

Sufficient precedent? Not sure, but it's news to me. Learn something new every day.
GW seems to treat immobilization from difficult terrain as some unique aspect in several FAQ rulings over the various books.

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Last edited by roleplayer09 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I was fully aware of the Flickerfield FAQ when I posted the above ruling. It's not a sufficient precedent at all.

The Dangerous Terrain rules are pretty clear about invulnerable saves already being permitted, so that FAQ was a no-brainer. The Grav Gun situation is pretty different.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Is this sarcasm or has there been a change in the ruling ?
Mostly sarcasm.

Every "this is the special Ultimates ruling for this" post I see reads to me as a thinly veiled attempt to influence other TOs for future events to interpret the rules differently. Hopefully they can read the rules the way they are actually written by GW (however flawed) to come to the same conclusions I have.

Criticise the rules designers - not the TOs. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Is this sarcasm or has there been a change in the ruling ?
Mostly sarcasm.

Every "this is the special Ultimates ruling for this" post I see reads to me as a thinly veiled attempt to influence other TOs for future events to interpret the rules differently. Hopefully they can read the rules the way they are actually written by GW (however flawed) to come to the same conclusions I have.

Criticise the rules designers - not the TOs. ;)
Fair call. I'm not to fussed even if all these rulings went in my army's favour I don't think it would have to big of an influence on the outcome of my games. These rules make powerful slightly more powerful or slightly less powerful against me.

If centurions want to infiltrate forward and shoot my helbrutes cool I'm sure being in assault range of my FMC is something I can handle if I don't get cover saves for the helbrutes :D
Just saying ya all


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Is this sarcasm or has there been a change in the ruling ?
Mostly sarcasm.

Every "this is the special Ultimates ruling for this" post I see reads to me as a thinly veiled attempt to influence other TOs for future events to interpret the rules differently. Hopefully they can read the rules the way they are actually written by GW (however flawed) to come to the same conclusions I have.

Criticise the rules designers - not the TOs. ;)
Fair enough, but for the record my own comments on the interpretation of several rules is genuine rather than an attempt to improve chances of success. Nothing personal there, it's obvious from dozens of forums that when it comes to grav guns and that infiltrating unit issue so do countless other players, and so do many TOs who have to go one way or the other. It comes with the territory, and its noone's fault but the chimps at the typewriters who don't understand many of their player base want FAQs more frequently than new Supplements.

Anyway, play on.


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