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Ulitmates Rules Questions - Page 2 - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:13 am 
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ScoJu...i think you have me at a disadvantage, as i dont own or have a copy of the most recent Lizardmen book.
Ideally id like to read the Lizard book cover to cover before i make a solid opinion on any subject. Any chance you could throw me a JPEG orientated bone in the form of a private message?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:44 am 
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Quote:
Haha funny!

Plus, why would you bother targetting a regular standard bearer...they usually only have a very tame banner.
World dragon banner

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:48 am 
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wording for deliverance...

The deliverance of itza is a direct damage spell that targets all enemy units within 12".

wording for burning alignment...
Burning alignment is a direct damage spell that targets every enemy unit within 4D6".

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:04 am 
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If it states "Direct Damage" than my previous statement was correct and units engaged in combat are not eligible targets of either of these abilities.

Sorry Scoju.

What do these spells actually do? Just for my knowledge.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:12 am 
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well as long as its just for your own knowledge and no one elses...

Itza
2d6 S4 hits (3D6 for undead or daemons) for all enemy units within 12 18 24 depending on power level used. can be repeatedly used by the same caster.

burning
1D6 hits vs all enemy units within 4d6 inches.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:29 am 
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I atually didnt know what the item Banner of World Dragon was until you said anything. Yeah its pretty nice!

But then again, lets think about it. You can only take it on 1 of 4 units in your army unless you put it on a BSB (generally people dont do this as they give their BSB's other survivability tricks etc etc). Anyone who takes White Lions, Swordmasters, Phoenix Guard or Dragon Princes who can depending on unit size, where characters are etc etc, it can generally be a BIG NEON SIGN telling you were the item is. A smart player will figure it out pretty quick.

The item only works against magical attacks...Lizardmen are pretty damn good at pumping out sufficient non-magical damage in nearly every type of phase to not really be all that concerned with this item. They have good shooting and good combat and solid troops. The banner will only do 2 things against lizards, 1) Stop a character using a magical sword cutting swathes through that unit 2) that unit being on the receiving end of magical damage, however Hex Spells, non damaging spells and Spells that allow no saves of any kind will bypass it. Whats does that leave a handful of magic missiles and some direct damage spells.

To be honest, its a nice item....but honestly....its not scary in the least for the majority of armies (but i can understand a demon player having a cry.....hahahahahaha)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:48 am 
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Another dangerous banner would be the Banner of the barrows giving +1 to hit. Or for more strategic play...the +1 leadership banner. I suppose you would target a magical banner bearer only if there were no other dudes with magic items in the unit.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:57 am 
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If you are not taking the threat of the Banner of the World Dragon seriously, then you will not win Ultimates.

As for the Direct Damage spells, it depends on what the most important word in that sentence is; 'targets' or 'all'?
If its Targets, then units engaged in combat are not eligable targets and are unaffected.
If its 'all', then every enemy unit in range is affected, as its an all encompassing word that specifies what is hit.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:40 pm 
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since Ju makes a very good point against what I want I would like his comments struck from the record. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Ju - gah! The "all" implies its ability to strike more than a single target...thats it! For example if i say "My comet strikes all of your models within 8" of this token". The "Direct Damage" classification stipulates eligibility of targets, just because you are in range doesnt mean you are an eligible target. For example you can target all "eligible" targets within 12".

How can anyone be confused on this?

As long as any and all units are within range and they lie within the forward arc of the model and NOT engaged in combat...they are eligible targets!

Ahhh Ju....making statements like that is silly...reminds me of what happened last year! I dont look at this game the same as you, i weigh and measure items, synergies, unit, choices and most importantly my opponent, differently than most people i have played. 1 Item does not scare me...Banner of World Dragon...does not scare me, any unit holding this item im going to stomp the snot out of with my Crypt Horrors. I know of its existence, i have read what it does and i know its limitations and if i attend and play a High Elf player, i know what to expect. There are a great number of more things in this game that i feel deserve greater attention.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:18 pm 
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So Jed, what youre saying is - you are going to Ultimates and youre taking a Vampire Counts list with Crypt Horrors.

Cool.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:58 pm 
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I didnt say that

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:31 pm 
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- If a model with table wide special rules does not start on the board, can the army make use of its special rules?
For Example - Can Grom the Paunch's 'Eat Elves for Breakfast' rule still benefit the respective models if he does not start on the table (rolling a one in the Meeting Engagement Mission for example). The wording mentions 'while he is still alive', and is technically not a casualty yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:07 pm 
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On page 27. It covers reinforcements, it states in the paragraph that "A unit that enters as reinforcements cannot charge, as it has missed its opportunity to declare charges, and may not march, but can otherwise participate in the game normally. It's worth bearing in mind that the unit counts as having moved for the purposes of shooting."

I would go as far as to say that, while the model is not present on the field of battle that he is not participating (effectively not alive, until he actually arrives) and therefore his rules do not benefit units in the army.

Furthermore, it specifies that when a unit flees off the table, they are gone (dead or otherwise) and no longer have an effect on the game. I think while you could potentially argue that the rules arent clear enough, in the rules we have available to us it makes it clear enough that if your not on the table you technically dont exist.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Luke;

Ive summarised a few questions that have yet remained unanswered for WFB Ultimates.
Considering the love the 40K thread has had so far in regards to number of questions asked an answered, would you be able to give the WFB crowd answers to the following questions?

- Can Direct Damage spells that target all enemy units within a certain range (such as 12", 4D6" for example) affect enemy models in a) comabt and b) not within the caster's forward arc?
- Does the Predatory Fighter rule allow for an additional attack from models making Supporting Attacks beyond their single Attack (for non-monstrous models) or three Attacks for Kroxigor?
- Can Arcane Unforging target a standard bearer who carries a magical standard? If Arcane Unforging destroys a magical standard (such as a magical Battle Standard), is the standard replaced with an ordinary standard?
- If a model with table wide special rules does not start on the board, can the army make use of its special rules?

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