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How to deal with Leviticus - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Hey all. Sorry in advance as this is a bit of a rant, with a slight bit of gripe, but mainly it is me asking for advice on a problem that I feel very much at a loss to deal with.

On the Monday just gone I VS'd Leviticus with McMourning. And to put it simply I was destroyed. McMourning was killed by the desolation engine in turn 1 after its SPA's moved almost up the entire field as a group, transformed, and then proceeded to ravage him - taking him down in two hits (the second hit flipped a red-joker, which flipped an additional moderate damage). He had also bided his time so that all my models had activated and I had nothing left to respond to this with.

At the start of the second turn, my opponent took initiative and proceed to destroy my Rouge Necromancy with Leviticus (turning it into a SPA), and managed to pull my Flesh Construct to almost no health. At which point (not even activating a model on turn 2) I conceeded as I could see no point in continuing since I had lost my Master and my other heavy hitter, and my last heavy hitter was about to die a moment later. And even if the Flesh Construct did manage to destroy the Desolation engine, I felt assured it was going to re-appear once the SPA's revived themselves.

I went into this battle already dreading to fight Leviticus, and my fears were met with this outcome. I felt pretty much powerless to do anything, and even in retrospect I cannot see how else I could have improved my game. Admittedly I am still new (this was only game 8 for me in Malifaux) and my opponent has had at least 3+ months of playing with Leviticus and so knows all his tricks - as well as likely knew what I could do.

I had to tell my opponent, as graciously as I could, I won't be VS'ing him again if he uses Leviticus (and given its his only crew, it does mean I've got to look elsewhere for a foe) - at least until I get a lot more skill in playing and fighting other crews to get experience to improve my game.

But anyway - rant over. My question:

How does one deal with Leviticus? Given he gets x2 hollow Waifs out in the first turn, its very hard to kill him as most people know. His SPA's are cheap, move very fast and turn into a devastating monster. I find it hard to find any weakness I can exploit, and feel almost at a loss to even attempt to play against him ever again. This is a concern I've had for a while since reading up on him, and currently feel him soo unbalanced its even put me off Malifaux a bit (which I'm sure I'll recover from once I have time to let my ego heal).

Please help me. This Master has ruined my fun and I'd like to find a way to at least feel there is a way to take him down with the Ressurectionists.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Hmm any chance you could tell us the crew lists used by both parties? may help shed some light on where stuff when wrong and how to fix


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Hmm any chance you could tell us the crew lists used by both parties? may help shed some light on where stuff when wrong and how to fix
McMourning:
- Simulacrum 29"
- Flesh Construct
- Rouge Necromancy
- Sebastian
- x3 Night Terrors (taken to seek objectives - I was doing Line in the Sand)

Leviticus:
- 4 Steampunk Abominations
- Rusty Alice
- Molly
- 1 Cannine Remains
- Necromantic Machine

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:40 am 
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as i said before i am realy sorry about that game i didnt want to demolish you
i usally play against players that are much better than me
i know no excuse
again really sorry

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:29 am 
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Ok this may be long.

McMourning vs Levi is a tough matchup but it is doable.

Hiring the Flesh Construct, RN and Sebastian at the outset I think put you a little on the back foot. I owuld have gone with just one of them (the Flesh Construct). Taking the Avatar would be a 50/50 call in my opinion with this match up.

Levi not dying in a turn is good, it starves him of cards and cuts down his activations.

McMourning can heal Levi if you want and can get close, I know Levi has a nasty weapon in Death Touch but it needs a severe to pull off and you have Hard to Wound and Df that is on par with his Cb

Bete Noir is nice as she can shut down access to the second waif because if he kills the canine remains, out she pops and can have fun taking the Levi players focus off their strategies.

Try and get some range in the crew via someone like Von Schill (he comes with a whole bags of tricks vs Constructs and Undead)

Get body parts and hold onto them until you are in range to summon the RN preferrably in a postion to kill a waif or Levi with 3 headed attacks and follow up with your acid at range against whatever remains. For a model that is slow and gets 3 AP the turn it is summoned is pretty decent.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:57 am 
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I agree Bete is good for this match up. The times I faced Lev with Nico, Bete has been a pain for my opponent. She keeps Lev distracted and in one game he had to get Rusty Alice to rapid fire into Lev to kill him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:04 am 
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Levi can be a real challenge to less experienced players, but he's very killable once you figure out his strengths and limitations.

Levi is incredibly good at wiping out single models in a given activation (as you saw) and unless you have the resources to kill both Hollow waifs in a single turn he's also a challenge to actually kill. Conversely, his most effective spell is ranged, meaning he can't use it in melee and will have to randomise if his target's in melee. His damage output is also strongly tied to his wounds - if you can take him down a few wounds there's a good chance he won't be able to do as much damage as he'd normally hope to. So if I want to keep Levi out of the fight for a turn, I'll run a few of my more expendible models into melee with him and try to keep the rest of my crew in melee themselves.

Levi is also quite slow and since he summons at the end of turn to a Hollow waif, it's easy to predict where he'll be in the next turn, especially if he's taken Rusty Alyce. You can also dictate where he pops up by killing one of the Waifs yourself. He'll live, but it generally means he'll have to resummon to the other waif, who's often going to be in a safer position where Levi will be less capable of getting into the fray.

Steampunks - if you can kill even one of the four, they lose the ability to become the desolation engine. Failing that, if your opponent runs a deso engine up to your crew in the first turn then it means you're free to concentrate on the engine with minimal retaliation from your opponents crew.

Looking at Ironknight's list, it seems pretty standard. I'm guessing Molly is there to boost Levi's movement but aside from the potential desolation engine there's not truely hard-hitting melee minions. Rusty is merely okay in melee (she really wants to be shooting her gun) and while Levi can do a butt-load of damage with his fist, it's preferable to him slinging ranged spells at you. So here's my advice;

1. Avoid Levi's spells, either by keeping outside his LoS, distracting him with chaff or staying in melee with the rest of his crew. Fortunately, from what I gather Flesh constructs can count as "chaff" in a Mcmourning crew. ;)

2. Remember that if Levi can draw a bead on a model, that model is likely to die.

3. If you can take 3+ wounds off Levi before he activates, he'll generally be less effective that turn.

4. Set out to kill any Hollow waifs that you'd rather Levi not summon to. Even if you can't kill both, this will let you dictate where Levi is able to project his power.

5. Threaten the Hollow Waifs with something like Necropunks. It will force him to hold them back and by extension, prevent Levi from getting too far forward.

6. Don't let the Steampunks reach critical mass if you can avoid it. You just need to kill the forth and/or prevent them from getting into BtB. Fortunately they're not hard to kill, and if Levi is resummoning them from scrap it means he's not using those AP to kill models.

That's all I can think of for the moment. I hope that helps. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:00 am 
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I have a nice trick against him it doesn't always work but no plan is fool proof.

When Levi sacrifices himself pop Bette up and smash face on the hollow waif. A crooked man to paralyze (thinks that's the name of action) the desolation engine rather than killing it That way it loses a turn and your opponent will then concentrate on killing the crooked man instead.

And I know it goes against popular belief but keep mcmourning back for a more finishing off approach and use his dogs as body part scavengers :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:23 am 
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Quote:
as i said before i am realy sorry about that game i didnt want to demolish you
i usally play against players that are much better than me
i know no excuse
again really sorry
Hey its cool. No hard feelings at you Iron Knight. You just busted my ego bad. I'll recover :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:14 am 
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Cheers all. The one thing I'm kicking myself with now is a love Bete Noir and never considered using her for the match-up. And I even had the model on hand! Curses :D

But thanks. I'll review this and, with a bit more practice against some other players, will seek a re-match with Iron Knight again.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:24 am 
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Do it, @sensual takes Bette every time I use Levi, really levels the playing field ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:50 am 
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Just take Hamelin- he out douches all other Mali douches ;)


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