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Pew pew! - WestGamer
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 Post subject: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:36 pm 
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I've tried Infinity briefly in the past.

Back then, there was like no one playing it and awesome cheap MDF terrain didn't exist. The tables at the tournament today looked good. And I know the game has grown a lot since I last played it. Or even looked at it.

I have some questions..

What books are required to play? Can you just get by on the army builder app thing? What books would you recommend?

What's the tournament format?

Is there a particular way to build balanced lists?

What factions are over represented or under represented?

Which factions would best suit beginners? Are any particularly hard to play?

And last question, do any of the factions have a particular style of play- what is it?

Thanks guys.

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:22 pm 
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Quote:
What books are required to play? Can you just get by on the army builder app thing? What books would you recommend?
None. All of the rules are available for free online from Corvus Belli. I actually recommend you don't try to learn the rules with the official books. They're poorly and irrationally organised. Instead, use the wiki...

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Home

Or Beasts of War's Quickstart guide...

http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/u ... les-V1.pdf

The Infinity Army app linked from the main site is awesome but if you've got a tablet, Aleph Toolbox is an excellent choice as well. Your best choice is just to sit down and get someone to run you through the basic mechanics like Face to Face rolls, then just learn the more advanced rules as you encounter them.
Quote:
What's the tournament format?
Today, we used YAMS. I'm starting to love it more and more as it gives you a few things to do in game that don't necessarily involve trying to out shoot your opponent. I can see it becoming very common.
Quote:
Is there a particular way to build balanced lists?
Take what you like. Screw balance. Infinity is a bizarre system. When you start, everything that gets thrown at you will feel broken but the more you play, the more you start to understand the very complex system of counters and options available to you and how best to deal with problem units and abilities. Often, it's going to come down largely to how you play, not what you play with.
Quote:
What factions are over represented or under represented?
PanOceania and Haqqislam had the majority today but even then, it felt like a fairly even split as those two factions were also split again between standard lists and Sectorials. I didn't see any identical (or even similar) builds between any of the players. I think the only faction that wasn't represented today was Combined but that was because Jarrod was running, not playing.
Quote:
Which factions would best suit beginners? Are any particularly hard to play?
Any. None. Again, it's a bizarre system. The basic equipment/weapons are shared between all factions and the stat line for a standard Human is pretty much identical across the board, with maybe one point change in either direction to represent better or worse training. All factions have basic order monkeys, medium infantry, cavalry (mechanized/air drop), heavy infantry with different weapon mixes, specialist infantry etc. The differences aren't overly huge. Best advice is just pick the one you like the look of. See below for a short version breakdown.
Quote:
And last question, do any of the factions have a particular style of play- what is it?
Ariadna doesn't get a lot of real fancy toys like TAGs but gets a lot of awesome cheap dudes.
Aleph's cyborgs tend to be a little better than most factions basic infantry but are pricier to boot.
PanOceania and YuJing are fairly balanced factions, both with a mix of excellent CC, shooting and trickery models.
Nomads love hackers and get a lot of cheap aerial drop troops.
Haqqislam get lots of cheap doctors and excellent medium/heavy infantry.
Tohaa are very efficient as they can form multiple Fireteams (Infinity "squads") but are weak to fire.
Combined can be a short range assault army (Morat) or a stealthed out, sneaky list (Shasvasti).

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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:47 pm 
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I read a good summary of play styles on the infinity forums a while ago. From memory it was along the lines of:

Yu Jing and PanO - win games through methodical play. You put a few very tough pieces on the table and slowly crush the life out of your opponent. The trick is to not get split up and taken apart one by one. I get the impression this is a 'refuse to make mistakes and your golden' type of army (but I could be wrong).

Ariadna and Haquislam - win games through unfair exchanges e.g. “I'll trade your heavy for my medium, or my light for your medium” Such games tend to be bloody but decisive. Probably the best example is one of the Haquislam light infantry that has a heavy flame thrower (for 12 points) its probably not going to survive the return fire but its going to take down five times its worth with a good shot.

Nomads - win by creating unfair matchups. They have excellent medium infantry and skirmishers that will beat their peers in a head on fight (just look at the intruders!) and lots of hackers and a boatload of repeaters to ensure enemy heavy infantry cant function to fight against them. They also have an abundance of “tricky things” like deployable weapons, climbing plus, airborne deployment (and even plenty of units that combine these abilities into an epic headache to deal with.)

Aleph and Combined - win by ignoring what the opponent does and focusing on applying their own horrible horrible troops where they want to be. My take is that the mentality is similar to that of PanO and Yu Jing but rather than using lots of armour and high BS to thwart your foe we use hard counters e.g. don't want to get shot by BS15 missiles.....block its fire with smoke and waltz past to the real target.

As has already been mentioned most forces can do most things, but exactly how and exactly what mix is available is quite varied (certainly enough so that you will ALWAYS be jealous of what your opponents army can do) – as an ALEPH player I go green with envy over cheap dogged chain rifles, affordable heavy infantry (ALEPH gets really good, but really expensive HI, or some sort of super-heavy MI, but little true HI), or mass camo.

Faction breakdown is really hard to measure since different sectoral lists can play quite differently even within the same army, and many people have more than one faction.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:03 pm 
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I use the wiki and the quick reference guides to learn rules for the game.

There are loads of combination of models to take so play style will also be based on build.

Totally take whatever you like, prepare for giant 10 order Rambo runs down the board.......then realise your opponent will get AROs, this really balances the game out in my opinion.

I gotta say for a tourney game, it was great to play Infinity and not stress when it was my opponents turn but instead actively participate in both player turns.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Quote:
What books are required to play? Can you just get by on the army builder app thing? What books would you recommend?
As already said you don't need the books, you can use the wiki and the rules are also available to download on the Infinity site
Quote:
What's the tournament format?
Currently I seem to be the one running tournaments but there are two formats ITS scenarios and YAMS, which are different approach. ITS scenarios require the use of specialists and have global objectives to achieve, though I do believe there is one private objective for you to achieve I haven't personally looked too much into it. YAMS uses a randomly determined set of objectives for each player to achieve, some are easier than others but its a nice system.
I do also believe other objective/mission systems are around but none seem to as popular as the fore mention systems.
Quote:
Is there a particular way to build balanced lists?
Not really, you can build whatever list you like as everything can be used in some way to be offensive or counter something.
Quote:
What factions are over represented or under represented?
At the tournament there were 3 Ariadna, 2 Aleph, 1 Tohaa, 1 Nomads, 3 Haqqi, 3 Pan O, and 1 Yu Jing
Quote:
Which factions would best suit beginners? Are any particularly hard to play?
I would avoid Tohaa, as they are slightly more complicated than most factions
Quote:
And last question, do any of the factions have a particular style of play- what is it?
Answered by others, but sectorials have even more specialised roles


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:49 pm 
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I would suggest having a look at the rules PDF or one of the quick start guides to at least have a vague idea of how the mechanics work, but hitting someone up for an intro game will be better to learn the rules (from my experience). Infinity makes a lot more sense in practice.

In my opinion, calling something a balanced in Infinity only really applies to how you plan on achieving objectives and/or defending against your opponents scheme. Not necessarily what units you field. Infinity is the most tactical game I’ve had the pleasure to play, and if you as the player aren’t covering all your tactical bases, no single list is going to help you win.

All factions seem to be well represented but guys tend to have more than one (go skirmish games!). At the first Paradiso last year, I think there were four of us playing Yu Jing (vanilla or sectorial), two Nomad, two Ariadna and a Pan O force. No Aleph, Combined Army, Haqqislam or Tohaa.
This year I was the only Yu Jing player, there was three Ariadna, three Pan O, three Haqqislam, two Aleph, a Nomad and a Tohaa force. No Combined Army cos Jarrod didn’t need to play.

The bigger question is what do you like the look of the most? Playstyle can be pretty flexible in all the factions so you can probably make that fit around preferred aesthetics.

Start up a thread asking about cool lists for X faction and watch everyone go nuts with ideas. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Quote:
Start up a thread asking about cool lists for X faction and watch everyone go nuts with ideas. :mrgreen:
That is one thing that makes me go meeeh. I don't know really know what things do.. and there's a huge amount of choice. And sectorial lists.

So yeah, I can beg for lists. =p

...

What would you generally take for the following factions and why? What points? 300?

Shasvasti - I don't like the Morat stuff. TO/Stealth spam viable?

ALEPH - I assume Dakini Tacbots don't see play. What's the Steel Phalanx?

Nomads - I understand they make skew lists? How so?

Tohaa - They look cool and apparently they suck against fire. And can forge/break new links with the Lt order.

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:36 pm 
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Shasvastii and camo spam. Yes, speak to Jarrod :mrgreen:

Dakini will see play, they are cheap for Aleph. The steel phalanx is the single Aleph sectorial. Recreated Greek heroes doing what Greek heroes do best.

Skew lists?

The more elite Tohaa units often have symbiote armour. This Armour is very susceptible to fire damage and can be rendered useless leaving expensive troops naked.
Tohaa have a slightly different approach to fire teams than other factions. Where other factions can link five men from a single unit. Tohaa can link three dudes but can link freely between units.

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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Ah. Skew lists. It's a Warmachine term, sorry.

To skew, is to create a list outside the norm, that general lists won't be able to handle. Like... a drop troop or TO camo spam list, I guess?

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Short of writing you a list, this is what I considered pre-Paradiso. I wrote the following with three games experience and it went 3W / 1L at Paradiso. I felt that it had all the tools to get things done and really just wanted a more proficient general at its helm to make better use of what it had. :D

Things to note:
- You want a couple of big guns (AP+EXP is a good start for removing TAGs and heavy troops without getting into Hacking, etc).

- Mobility is CRUCIAL and dictating what troops are where is a massive in game advantage (I used the Paratrooper who arrives from a board edge after turn 1 to be very useful as he exploits errors that the opponent doesn't realise they are making, Infiltrate and Mechanised Deployment both help here as well).

- You want some armour of your own somewhere. Ariadna likes trading infantry as usually I have more, but at the same time, you need someone who can last a firefight and hold an objective for you. (The Moblots did this for me).

- Give alot of thought to your Lt, if they die you pretty much lose a turn BUT keeping them from the frontlines isn't entirely necessary, they have a free extra order to use and so can reliably do that bit more than others. (I went Moblot again here. Armour and good weaponry / BS meant they weren't easily downed when targetted and could beat most troops on the active turn due to their high Burst and good BS).

- Paramedics and Docs can make opponents wary of just wounding a troop and make them waste additional shots removing them just to be safe. I'd advocate having a couple of cheap ones if possible for this reason alone.

(Post Paradiso) Next time I'd balance the lists out slightly and add a couple of doctors / paramedics to the first, and maybe drop Uxia for a wolf pack who provide some melee power. Melee plays a very minor role (I had one close combat fight all event) but it can exploit a persons overextended unit and gang smash it in combat for doing so.

Aaand the lists I used...
Quote:
Lists! :D

The one that tries to stay alive...
Image Ariadna | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Image Para-Commando HMG (32|1)
Image Zouave Paramedic (24|0.5)
Image TankHunter Autocannon (40|1.5)
Image Moblot Lieutenant (28|0)
Image Moblot Panzerfaust (31|1)
Image Scout AP Sniper (35|1)
Image Uxìa SupInf (25|0)
Image Métro Paramedic (13|0)
Image Métro Paramedic (13|0)
Image Intel Rifle (+2 wip, +2 arm, Doctor) (9|0|12xp)
________________________________________________________

250/250 points | 5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox Image : direct link

The one that cares not for petty mortality...

Image Ariadna | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Image Para-Commando HMG (32|1)
Image TankHunter Autocannon (40|1.5)
Image Moblot Lieutenant (28|0)
Image Moblot Infiltrator AP (42|0)
Image Chasseur Sniper (31|1)
Image Uxìa SupInf (25|0)
Image Zouave Rifle (20|0.5)
Image Métro Camo DEP (12|0.5)
Image Métro Camo DC (11|0)
Image Intel Rifle (+1 wip, -0 arm, +1 bs, Panzerfaust, CH: Mimetism) (9|0|12xp)
________________________________________________________

250/250 points | 4.5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox Image : http://goo.gl/vh2MC2

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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Well I'll need a bit of time to work out a nice 300 point shas force, but its easy to do the complete camo list at 300 (or I would hope it is) but complete TO list would be hard (but not out of reach). Also on PFF 2013 there were 4 Yu Jing, 2 Nomads, 1 Pan O and 3 Ariadna, with the Aleph player pulling out due to personal commitments.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:03 pm 
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I think people may be overstating just how great the range of options within each faction is. Don’t get we wrong it is extensive, but if you want to have multiple heavy infantry options and link teams (for example) your going to be really disappoint with Nomads, Shasvasti, or Ariadna! Equally if you want mass cammo your going to have a bad time with ALEPH or the Imperial Service. All these factions do have the options, but not on mass. Your best deciding what you want (something niche, bit of everything, more of this than that) and picking factions accordingly........Grab a couple of demo games with a bit of everything and see what you like.

For the armies mentioned:
Shasvasti – can spam camo and medium infantry. The camo lists can make for a mass of very self sufficient individuals (many units have auto-medkits, or dogged (allows them to go down fighting), or striga (regain wounds through eating people)). This is the main advantage they have over Ariadna and Nomads, both of which can make excellent camo lists as well. Ariadna gets bigger guns, nomads get more “opponent pulling out their hair” options, while Shasvasti fill a middle ground but have strangely resilient troops for camo units.

ALEPH – Dakinis are good, but they get overshadowed by other options at large point games (unless your running some of the super units that need cheap orders to back them up). ALEPH basically has a bit of everything, and everything they do they do well (so don’t expect things on a budget) but is able to spam really tough medium infantry (either through extensive availability of 'no wound incapacitation' (almost a 2nd wound) or optical disruptor’s (makes them frigging hard to hit in a BS fire fight)

The Steel Phalanx uses all the greek units, they tend to be modestly armoured (with two notable exceptions) and have extensive availability of optical disruptor’s. They are able to form multiple link teams which makes the very order efficient, and easy to play very aggressively. They lack tricks though. There are no camo units, one infiltrator, and a couple of AD units. Basically they run across the table and tear their opponents apart in close range fire fights.

Nomads – I dont think they make skew lists as such (indeed, Corregidor builds lists that are about as subtle as a brick to the face) They have a lot of units that appear expensive for their raw stats, however these units come with irritating options that make moving round the table and actually overpowering them difficult (mines, cheap flamers, hackers, deployable hacking nodes, crazy koalas all make moving into space you want dangerous. Meanwhile lots of AD and climbing plus ensure the nomads are getting where the opponent doesnt want them).

Tohaa – have a limited range of units at the moent but are the kings of link teams. They can have as many as they like and mix almost any unit into them. This makes for a terrifyingly fast and flexible army (you can build link teams for a specific purpose, or mix three totally different units in to cater for any eventuality). They can be fairly resiliant with widespread availability to symbiont armour (about as good as 'no wound incapacitation') its almost always a 2nd wound, but doesn’t work against fire. The Gao Tarsos (their AD unit) is probably worth a special mention in this regard as it has this armour allowing for some very aggressive drops onto the table with fairly minimal risk (unlike most AD troops where landing mid table is quite risky). The vulnerability to fire often seems overstated......most units will die once they start burning, Tohaa just die faster (it is a problem for their TAG though).


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:43 pm 
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The first time I tried Infinity (1-2+ years ago?) Aleph was the faction I played briefly. I loved the models. Made me watch a lot of anime. Back then the choice was still Shasvasti or Aleph. Same now and Aleph wins again. There's twice the range available now. Like, Netrods and stuff weren't even out yet. All the new stuff is really pretty.

I've had a read of some articles about what roles some of the models play. I don't know what most of the gear does.


Like, I remember I need a hacker if I'm running any bots. A defensive hacker, cause IIRC a lot of my stuff can get hacked.
Netrods as order monkeys.
I'll probably need some fast TO camo guys to get objectives, I guess?
Long range firepower?
Mid range firepower?
Total Reaction Rebot?
Ability to kill TAGs?
Ability to deal with TO spam?

What goes into a list designed for tournament play? (All comers, non-sectorial)

...

Models I want to own:

Posthumans (I'm not sure if the soul-sharing is viable? But so pretty.)
Myrmadons
Asuras
Nagas
Achilles
Daysus
Devas
Nessaie
Penthesilea
Bunch of the Steel Phalanx guys. Especially the Myrmadon Hacker.

No Dakini or Garuda tacbots.

_________________
"The Dragon feeds on our wars. Every dead soldier is another weapon in the hands of our enemy. While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger."
- King Leto Raelthorne.


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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Quote:
Like, Netrods and stuff
When I initially glanced at this line, I totally thought it read "Metroids". Then I thought - Damn, I would TOTALLY play a Metroid minis game! ;)

On topic though - I've held off getting into Infinity thus far (too many miniature systems already) but if I did start it - I'd totally go Aleph. The characters and bikers are just too awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Pew pew!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:32 pm 
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If you are looking at Shas here is a 300 point list I wrote, for a complete camo force as you requested something similar
Image Combined Army - Shasvastii Expeditionary Force | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Image Aswuang Lieutenant (25|0)
Image Aswuang Spitfire (31|1)
Image Aswuang Spitfire (31|1)
Image Shrouded Minelayer (25|0.5)
Image Shrouded Minelayer (25|0.5)
Image Noctifer Missile (42|1.5)
Image Speculo Killer (39|1)
Image Noctifer Hacker (35|0.5)
Image Shrouded Combi (24|0)
Image Cadmus BS (23|0)
________________________________________________________

300/300 points | 6/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox Image : http://goo.gl/O42jw2

The Aswuang lt is regarded as the best lt choice, camo and beefy stats which is the main reason for choice. The spitfire Aswuangs are there for the ability to pump out shots, and reign terror as they can do suppressive fire if required or combat camo units to put a heap of holes in them because they are so cheap point wise. The Shrouded are there to provide more camo markers with mines (minelayer starts with the additional marker to bring with) you then have the ability to be deployed up to half way making objective claiming easier. The ML noctifer is one of your anti armour weapons with EXP blasts and the target with AP applied, can be quite scary in the reactive turn. The hacker noctifer is there to go after anything you can hack, like HI and TAGs as well as airborne deployment (have an order to burn it can be worth it) also as a defensive hacker. The Speculo Killer is there for assassination runs, or the potential one hit TAG/HI/BBEG run with monofilament cow and MA Lv3. The Cadmus is there for drop in crowd control with the BS, though you can use it as an instant mine.
The cool thing about this list is that everything except the noctifers have some sort of healing, but the nocts have dogged to maximise damage when they start dying. The Speculo and shrouded have auto med kits which allow the spending of an order to do a ph roll to get up. While the Aswuangs and Cadmus have stringa that allows them to eat people and get wounds back or more of them (max of 3), and it gives them dogged because of the shasvastii rule allowing them to eat someone to stop dying.
Though this isn't written with ITS in mind, but YAMS should be great for it.


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