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ATC Committee vote on supplements, escalation etc - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Posted by Difsta:
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The (ATC Committee) are currently voting on how codex supplements, formations, data slates, esacalation, stronghold assault and cut off dates will be used this ATC. The vote cut off is 12:00pm Wednesday the 15th of January. If you can prod your state rep that would be grand
Our rep is Malignant. I've put a question up in response:
Quote:
I noticed that having teams restricted to a single use of a codex isn't on that list; is the assumption that this will remain the case by default?

Now that there are so many other ways to build armies, we may also need a vote on whether teams are restricted to a single use of a codex regardless of it being used is as a primary, ally, dataslate or other formation.
I expect the answers to be teams can only bring a codex once, whether as primary or ally, and that the option to use the codex is used up whether as primary, ally, dataslate or other formation.

Assuming that guess is correct, these are my suggested answers (note these are just my unofficial opinions)

Codex supplements - Count as the use of their parent codex
Formations - Uses the army's ally slot
Data slates - Uses the army's ally slot
Escalation - Not used
Stronghold assault - Not used (except as FAQ update for existing fortification rules)
Cut off dates - All publications avaiable 1 month before the list submission due date

Anyone with an interest in 40K or the ATC is welcome to suggest alternatives, with the goal being to have an answer ready for Malgnant to submit next Wednesday.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:36 pm 
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A part of me would like to trial one event uncomped with everyone encouraged to bring the most OP badass raging stuff they can, just to see if the latest two books really break the game as we think.

Barring that, the following makes sense.
Quote:
Codex supplements - Count as the use of their parent codex
Formations - Uses the army's ally slot
Data slates - Uses the army's ally slot
Escalation - Not used
Stronghold assault - Not used (except as FAQ update for existing fortification rules)
Cut off dates - All publications avaiable 1 month before the list submission due date

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:45 pm 
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A part of me would like to trial one event uncomped with everyone encouraged to bring the most OP badass raging stuff they can, just to see if the latest two books really break the game as we think.

Barring that, the following makes sense.
Quote:
Codex supplements - Count as the use of their parent codex
Formations - Uses the army's ally slot
Data slates - Uses the army's ally slot
Escalation - Not used
Stronghold assault - Not used (except as FAQ update for existing fortification rules)
Cut off dates - All publications avaiable 1 month before the list submission due date
The thing is Nic when everyone brings a gun to a gun fight then its ok. But when people start bring guns to a knife fight...then 40k gets silly. People such as myself don't want to use gargantuans or face them.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Is there any debate about whether '40k approved' Forgeworld units can be included?

Or have the Escalation rules superceded this?

Though has anyone thought of the poor TOs? How are TOs supposed to check lists when they don't have all of the dataslates, supplementary codexes and formations?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:51 pm 
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As a purist I think:

Codex supplements - Count as the use of their parent codex
Formations - Not used
Data slates - As these are not available in hard copy then should not be used. Otherwise players are being penalised for not owning a non gaming related reader.
Escalation - Not used as it is open to abuse
Stronghold assault - Not used

With regard to army books and allies etc
maybe have the same as for the main formation. ie taken once for allies and once for main army per team. Otherwise it will be Tau alliance.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:09 pm 
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Quote:
Codex supplements - Count as the use of their parent codex
Formations - Uses the army's ally slot
Data slates - Uses the army's ally slot
Escalation - Not used
Stronghold assault - Not used (except as FAQ update for existing fortification rules)
Cut off dates - All publications avaiable 1 month before the list submission due date

I agree with all of this, and would like to see this implemented.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Maybe they should just publish 8 lists that are to be used this year.

That's probably the only way to find out who is the best general or state anyway. That's assuming that is all the ATC is there for.

If it's to play 40K then I don't think a blanket ban should apply.

As for TO's having access to the supplements, what happened to asking to see/borrowing a copy?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:54 pm 
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As for TO's having access to the supplements, what happened to asking to see/borrowing a copy?
Who wants to lend me their ipads?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
Though has anyone thought of the poor TOs? How are TOs supposed to check lists when they don't have all of the dataslates, supplementary codexes and formations?
That's a really good point actually. How up to date is army builder? If that's not an option and actually having the codecies/supplements on hand is the only option, then we have a real problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Well if someone is using a particular dataslate then they must have it surely.

Where is the drama of asking to see it before the event or at registration?

Most of the information will be on Army Builder for example anyway.

I just don't think that events should be restricted to just what the TO owns :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Is there any debate about whether '40k approved' Forgeworld units can be included?
Or have the Escalation rules superceded this?
Though has anyone thought of the poor TOs? How are TOs supposed to check lists when they don't have all of the dataslates, supplementary codexes and formations?
Forgeworld hasn't been allowed in the past. Now escalation is out I will admit banning FW feels more like locking the stable after the horse has already bolted, but it's unlikely they'd change that.

The ATC TOs will have everything relevant and required; this is a fanatic-orientated event so TO's having lack of access to material doesn't need to be a consideration.
The same goes for players: army lists are published in advance, so everyone has a chance to find out what an Eldar Rulebreaker-2000 does.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Where is the drama of asking to see it before the event or at registration?
Drama 1: Person turns up with list unchecked at beginning of a tournament, needing to get it checked because the TO doesn't have the appropriate obscure rules
Drama 2: Person tries to get the list checked before the event, but the person and TO don't have time to go out of their respective ways to be in the same place and same time to actually do this

If Army Builder gets it all in there, that's all well and good. I hope it does, as any other way just makes the whole thing a lot more time consuming than it needs to be!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Well they aren't exactly obscure rules as they are readily available to pretty much any one who has an e reader or an ipad or who buys the eventual hardcopy compilation.

In the past there have been supplements and white dwarf articles that have been permitted at events and we survived that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Well they aren't exactly obscure rules as they are readily available to pretty much any one who has an e reader or an ipad or who buys the eventual hardcopy compilation.

In the past there have been supplements and white dwarf articles that have been permitted at events and we survived that.
I'm the past those supplements were considerably cheaper too. I think there's few players, let alone TOs, who are willing to fork out a few hundred dollars to have the rules for every army and supplement, never mind the fact that not everyone can afford or even wants to buy an ipad or ereader.

Fact is, no matter how you cut it, the army rules have become less accessible. And from the perspective of organising a tournament, that's a real problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Sorry but if you are reading this you can read any of the digital versions GW has produced... And don't tell me you HAVE to buy every book as we all know there are ways around this

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