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Generating interest in 40K and encouraging new players ? - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:48 pm 
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So I have been thinking lately (oh no!) how can the Perth community generate more interest and encourage new players in 40K, not just for tournaments but the game it self. Would a campaign system work, interest you and/or encourage you to play 40k.

This has been a though of mine lately, how do we get more players out of the wood works for 40K and/or encourage people to come back to the system/expose them self to the community (get your mind out of the gutter people).

40K isn't as BS as the internet or personal rants that people lead you to believe. It's still a highly tactical game (sure its has some flaws in the system, but what system doesn't), it may not be the 'most competitive rules set', but not every game is (personal approach dictates this). The game can be played for a variety of reason most of us have all heard this before.

My main goal of lately has been to rebuild/strength the 40k community. Tournaments have been the main focus/reason people don't talk about 40K or play 40K out side their gaming group, which is a shame cause system is pretty boss. I understand people move on from system for what ever reason, which is fine. But how to we maintain the strength of a system?

Well we start a campaign system, where people can play for fun, met other people in the 40K community and get some gaming time. But also have a narrative to work with ! WHAT FLUFFY 40K !!! yep. Now I'm not the best, nor am I the worst for running a campaign system, but I am interested in encouraging the system.

I along with any one interested in setting up a campaign system with me can make this an extremely fun and easy to committee to gaming experience. You don't have to be available all the time, but regularly would be nice to make this work.
My idea is we start of with small point forces, no allies, no LoW. At around 750pts - 1000pts with 2 - 3 weekly rounds which increase in points by 250pts each cycle, this is to encourage new players and make things more narrative, games after awhile can be played in teams (alliances with other players) or on your own, where if you defeat an opponent in a special seize assets round you gain the ability to use the allies matrix in the rulebook. (you don't get models of your opponent, you just unlock that race/chapter/force as an allied detachment being available if you can field them in any way).

Its also about controlling territory, defending/attacking, diplomacy, assets (gain from controlling a specialized territory) and well a story line fun campaign that runs over a few weeks/months.

This is just an idea to get people keen on 40k again, games can be played any where (houses, clubs, GW stores), submitting results to the Game Masters of the Campaign (Once I find some others with the time and interest to help out) and can be publically accessible to every one involved to allow knowledge on neighbouring territories to attack/defend, keep track of the Warmaster(s) and plan to take his/their power away and/or straight up cleanse a rival force.

Could be a really fun and bloody change to just tournaments all the time, grow the community and generate interest in the system and also great for building up new forces, getting new people into the system and exposing the system even more.

This is all just rough/raw ideas, but if the interest and effort is out there I'm willing to help make this work!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:25 am 
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Hell yeah id be interested, only thing that would be stopping me right now ( and next ... 7 - 9 weeks ?) is my uni work, i would love to participate in a campaign event or something like that and build up a new army *cough* not 40k more of a 30k *cough* but i think it would still be in the system/sprit of the game etc, i would like to help where i can but unfortunately it would be help here and there :P until i get some time on my hands in which case look out !


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:57 am 
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Quote:
This has been a though of mine lately, how do we get more players out of the wood works for 40K and/or encourage people to come back to the system/expose them self to the community (get your mind out of the gutter people).

40K isn't as BS as the internet or personal rants that people lead you to believe. It's still a highly tactical game (sure its has some flaws in the system, but what system doesn't), it may not be the 'most competitive rules set', but not every game is (personal approach dictates this). The game can be played for a variety of reason most of us have all heard this before.

My main goal of lately has been to rebuild/strength the 40k community. Tournaments have been the main focus/reason people don't talk about 40K or play 40K out side their gaming group, which is a shame cause system is pretty boss. I understand people move on from system for what ever reason, which is fine. But how to we maintain the strength of a system?
If you're going to start pushing something people already dislike at them, what do you hope to achieve here?

Speaking as someone that was heavily invested in tournament 40k before Sixth Ed, I've got no interest in coming back to it. And pretty much everyone that I know that dumped the system did it for the same reasons and those reasons had nothing to do with tournaments and the community.

Im not trying to start another debate about whether 40k is bad or not, but the way you've phrased this sounds downright insidious. "Quick, we're losing them! Convince them to love the game again!"

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:25 am 
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Hang out in gw stores and get them while they're young, build from there. Then once you're too large, i.e. players, then move to clubs.

Your target market is young adults ie kids so your club days are best weekends.

You could run things at tga or form your own club.

It's a lot of work and really requires one or two dedicated people to build hype and push players.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:41 am 
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Quote:
If you're going to start pushing something people already dislike at them, what do you hope to achieve here?


Umm that the people who like the system come out and play. If people don't like the system that is their choice, if people are interested but unsure about it then hopefully a campaign is more engaging for them.
Quote:
Speaking as someone that was heavily invested in tournament 40k before Sixth Ed, I've got no interest in coming back to it. And pretty much everyone that I know that dumped the system did it for the same reasons and those reasons had nothing to do with tournaments and the community.
If you have no interest in returning, this topic doesn't apply to you. As you have made up your mind, but as someone who use to enjoy the system what would you rather see happen. The community just watch the system lump along or some people who still enjoy/love the system put some effort into rebuilding/strengthening the community.
Quote:
I'm not trying to start another debate about whether 40k is bad or not, but the way you've phrased this sounds downright insidious. "Quick, we're losing them! Convince them to love the game again!"
If that's how you read it, then I'm sorry for you. As the system has clearly been struggling for over 9 months now. So the "quickly, we're losing them!" BS is a bit of an over statement. Don't like it. Not interested in the topic at all...

Then don't let the door hit you on the way out! (That's how I read your reply so thanks for nothing person who hasn't been involved for 2 years now)

brayo yea kind of another reason I posted this is to see who is interested in helping me out. So I might take your idea to a GW store. heers mate.

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"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:02 am 
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I had an idea to run a similar style campaign at the onset of 7th down at Outpost. My motivation dwindled, and I havn't actually attended the club in a couple of months. I'd join in, in such a campaign. I love breaking out my non-tournament mini's (My Storm Guardians are itching for a fight alongside my Avatar!!)

The thing is, I really don't think this is needed. Yes, 40k interest has dwindled, and the tournament scene has gotten much smaller. I think the key to building this back up is getting players into the clubs. I enjoy both part of 40k, the friendly club games with armies I like to play, and the competitive tournaments, where I build the dirtiest thing I can and do my best to win. The two are polar opposites.

Like I said, I would love to join such a campaign. I am not sure it's the best avenue to introduce/keep new players. Adding another rule system ontop of an already complex system will just baffle new players a lil bit more. Orange had pointed this out to me when I was brainstorming my campaign a while back.

I think a roster of escalation games, with some 2v2 (or 2v1) games thrown in would be best. Once you've got people set in that, then thing about some additional content.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:33 am 
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As the target audience for the thread you included people that had dropped off the radar (those who still had armies) and are still stakeholders to an extent. I think you need to focus on new blood, but to not force it upon people at the same time. I think an escalation campaign is a good way to do it focusing on the strengths of the system (like the background), campaigns are very difficult to run but if followed through are probably one of the best things about wargaming. Going down to the the LGS is the best bet and possibly running it from there.

Times have also changed. There is a lot more competition due to a greater number of different games which makes it hard for any system to thrive. Compare this to about 4-5 years ago where there were clear powerhouses of the industry. Now not so much.
Quote:
40K isn't as BS as the internet or personal rants that people lead you to believe. It's still a highly tactical game (sure its has some flaws in the system, but what system doesn't), it may not be the 'most competitive rules set', but not every game is (personal approach dictates this). The game can be played for a variety of reason most of us have all heard this before.
I also think you should leave this out, there are a lot of people disgruntled with GW 40K (myself included) who disagree and its just going to cause disputes. Not to mention a plethora of other reasons not related to the rules. I don't think it lends itself well to the thread for what you want to achieve, which is to generate interest.

I want to make a slightly off topic note here. I didn't post in this forum for about 3 years and coming back the demographic has definitely aged. I don't see a significant influx of "young blood" here at all (that I am aware of). Whatever the reasons for this im not sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:28 am 
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Yea could probably edit some of the first post to make it more inviting, but at the same time I see it as not hiding any of the truth and being straight up to forward to the community.

If a campaign system doesn't interest people then I guess it's back to the drawing board, It's true there are other systems that people may be more interested in but this is also nothing new to the hobby as it's always been around, it's just easier to access information these days with the flux of internet.

To get new blood not just into the gaming system (of any system) there also needs to be an increase of other mediums for advertising events, westgamer and clubs to gain new blood into all these categories. These are concerns of mine as well but not my things to improve as I'm not an admin of Westgamer, a member of a club and don't have time/interest to run events at the moment. (though with starting a campaign system all these mediums will benefit as a little boost to my goal)

Unfortunately I'm on prac at the moment for the next week and a half, but then I have a week off from study (kinda) so can start getting around and putting some real effort of launching this, but I was to see the interest in the idea over the time leading up. As I don't just want one club to benefit from a campaign, but the whole community.

*I'm not the best with words or conveying my interest/goals, so if some people have seen this as a sly attempt to 'I dunno what' then that's unfortunate, if you have a disliking to 40K now then that is unfortunately your decision and I would ask you if you can please keep your thoughts on this matter to yourself or PM me if you really need to. You don't see me jumping onto your topic's shotting your goals down do you.

Cheers guys, please keep all ideas and interest incoming I'm sure we all want to see the systems we enjoy and love playing strong and develop growth.

_________________
"Surround yourself with the greatest warriors at your command, or cower in the deepest and darkest hole you can find. It matters not. I shall take your head for the Great Khan and for the Emperor."
-Kor'sarro Khan, White Scars 3rd Company.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
Im not trying to start another debate about whether 40k is bad or not, but the way you've phrased this sounds downright insidious. "Quick, we're losing them! Convince them to love the game again!"
Perhaps re-read Outcast's post; it really sounds to me like he is trying to take a constructive approach and come up with some creative solutions to helping ensure other people continue to enjoy the game system he likes so much.

I'm in a similar position as you Dave, where I was previously enthusiastic about 40K and am now taking a break from it, but still wish Outcast all the best with this idea and hope it's successful.

A bad day's 40K is still better than a good day's Fishin'. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:15 pm 
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[quote="Matt-ShadowLord"

A bad day's 40K is still better than a good day's Fishin'. :D[/quote]

Niiice!


Although I probably couldn't participate too much, I think this would help people who have become overwhelmed with the options and different combinations


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:17 pm 
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Although I probably couldn't participate too much, I think this would help people who have become overwhelmed with the options and different combinations
This is definitely true. What people don't realise though, is that it's all elective. The scope of the game you have and rules you use are entirely up to you and your opponent.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:30 pm 
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I probably should have thrown a smiley in after that last line.

Also, if you take what I said as literal, then immediately read brayos post about specifically targeting children, this goes to a dark, drug dealing kind of place real quick

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Another ex-40K player here (I played this game exclusively for 5 years) with a huge and now totally inactive Tau-Necron 40K collection that involved many happy hours of building/painting and table-bashing. I've also noticed a big decline in 40k players at some recent club meets I have attended so can definitely see your concern. I bailed out during Fifth Edition for various reasons I won't go in to here, but having said that I really loved 40K pre-Fifth Ed; but the times they changed and new games took over.

As to meeting your challenge Brayo puts it well...
Quote:
Hang out in gw stores and get them while they're young, build from there. Then once you're too large, i.e. players, then move to clubs.
I am pretty sure that the GW stores still do games nights Fridays and these are perfect venues to harvest and nurture young players. So Concept 1: if you and/or your mates can get along to these evenings with a recruiting plan and a vision of 40K gaming utopia to infect the young players with then you might do well over time.

When I went to these games events there were models I could borrow at the store so I could have a crack with whatever was in the collection without the need to spend my limited $$$. Cost is a big issue for many young adults as they commonly don't have much cash and 40K has a pretty hefty entry level price tag, especially under the current terms of trade which exclude our access to models at UK/Eurpoean prices. So perhaps as Concept 2 you might want to look at getting a club-based model library together and make this available to new players (+/- small access fee if you want to build a fund to fix/replace any damaged models or make additions to the library); clubs have terrain collections so why not a model collection too?

Concept 3 might include show-case games held during school holidays at places accessed by kids (I'm thinking shopping centres and the like). I remember being impressed by show-case model railway displays at the Royal Show and toy-soldier displays at various shopping centers when I was a kid which went a long way towards cultivating my current list of polystyrene/white-metal addictions. Maybe those days are past but I reckon this might be worth a try if the right people are prepared to run it.

Campaigns - yes, that is a really fabulous idea. The best fun I ever had with 40K was in an escalation campaign with six players run by Baz. It was awesome but fell apart after life intervened and most of the players moved on. I was sad we did not finish it. This concept is a real winner but as Baz says you and all the participants need to be really committed to run a Campaign; I'd suggest you need to be reasonably time-bound and scheduled as well to avoid the 'life intervenes' factor!

Lastly, avoid the temptation to overpower your lists as your opponent must be given a viable chance to win; play with background lists not uber-lists in social games, particularly with new players. Also, if it looks like your going to smash your opponent throttle it back a bit to make the game closer (you'll be more likely to get a return game if your opponent isn't left feeling like they had their a... handed to them). I have made this kind of mistake before and it is not a good one.

Anyway Outcast, good luck and I hope you have a great result. It will require a lot of work but it sounds like you are up for that. I'm unlikely to join in at this stage but never say never, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Quote:
I probably should have thrown a smiley in after that last line.

Also, if you take what I said as literal, then immediately read brayos post about specifically targeting children, this goes to a dark, drug dealing kind of place real quick
Wrong direction. Dig up.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Maybe start with something small like a killteam campaign? It's not too much of a commitment (both time and money-wise) and so could more easily entice new players.


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