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Generating interest in 40K and encouraging new players ? - Page 2 - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:29 pm 
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I probably should have thrown a smiley in after that last line.

Also, if you take what I said as literal, then immediately read brayos post about specifically targeting children, this goes to a dark, drug dealing kind of place real quick
Umm I don't understand what you mean or what your implying. But please think before posting as stating drugs and children in a sentence isn't a smart post on westgamer. Regardless of your of what ever reason you have for trying to compare the two it's just not the place.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:50 am 
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I've been having a lot of fun with 40k by taking a themed, single codex (basically 5th Ed style) list. I let my opponent know that's what I'm bringing, and they bring something similar and a close game is had.

I think it would help if style was talked about and encouraged more, as I think that is what the majority of people want to play. I don't think most people want to grind out the most efficient, OP tournament list. It is impossible to keep up with.

Combined with the fact GW seems to be deliberately toning down their new books, it seems to be a good time to step back from the hardest possible list.

Leagues and campaigns can facilitate this, but even talking about a friendlier, themed style of play on Westgamer and at the clubs could go a long way too.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:07 pm 
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Campaign weekends might be a go. Not a tournament, but a campaign. X side wins the first battle, meaning game 2 is y scenario...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Leagues and campaigns can facilitate this, but even talking about a friendlier, themed style of play on Westgamer and at the clubs could go a long way too.
Id honestly like to see 2-3 heavily comped tournaments a year as well. B&C had its problems, but it always had a great turnout. Its a little tough these days as some codex literally cant make a 'bad' list (looking at you mr tau empire) and everything is so scissor/paper/rock... but it could be great fun.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:37 pm 
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What about a tournament where you play with your oppositions army. So effectively you have to try and pick the worst list possible so that you can win with your opponents list.

Jumping the shark I guess.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:55 pm 
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I have been thing about running a comp event. Also had the though of an event where you use your opponents list and that would be a comp event with a min and max comp score to ensure list are ruffly even.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:06 pm 
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Just putting it out there - I would not attend an event where my opponent used my army. Not due to list but due to the fact not everyone has the same standards in regards to care and use of models. I spent time and money to build paint and play with my army, not someone else's!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:13 pm 
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Yea I think thats the reason it has never been done. Was just agreeing to an idea shared with another.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:09 pm 
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Yea I think thats the reason it has never been done. Was just agreeing to an idea shared with another.
Has been done. A tournament in Adelaide had it (back in the day) for one of the six rounds. Was quite a hoot I'm told.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:31 pm 
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The Warhammer Fantasy Aus Masters event did it for many years.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:36 pm 
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ok i know this would require a lot of fore thought and precision but something could be organised where you play a "house" or "store" army, one that its not your models not your opponents but models that have been brought for others to use, and each time the lists change around, for instance the table would be 2 armies over 4 rounds or so meaning each army had 4 different lists for the day, not allowing the list to be played twice or something.

then for one of the rounds you don't play your army you play army A or army B with the list that is based for that round. this could form a narrative for an event and people may have the option to sit it out or participate ?

so then at the end of the day that one table would see 8 different lists 8 different players all creating 1 narrative game.

problematic getting models ? yeah probably, but if it could be done i'm sure it would be a fun little side thing.

lets you play a army different from yours in a friendly environment

i'm sure it would work in some utopian world, but the logistics of it im not sure :/


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:09 am 
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I glad to see that some real conversation is being had about this, I put it out there a few months ago that as a community we need to come together on a consensus about what we need to do to keep the 40k spirit alive. It didn't happen but I think with the last couple of tournaments some people have at least had a realisation something needs to happen.

The once dirty word comp sounds good to me. I realy like some of the restrictions ultimates has this year and if I get an invite could be something that saves me from completely bailing from 40k ( I still have a DE army). I think that what ever is run if some ground work is done to let people know that thinking is involved in the running and organising of the event so it's not just going to be a remove your models from the table event we could be on a winner.
Isn't that what we are all after is a competitive event, more or less for all, even those who bring a fluff or non optimised list. I think this edition more than any other edition of 40k could be the TO's edition. What I mean by that is which ever TO gets it right (the right combo of comp or level of boundness) could realy stand out as a local hero of 40k.

I think the main thing that will help with this is running something regular with a very clear direction on what your trying to achieve, stores could be the best bet here to get the info out. A real well put together poster would go a long way and I think mike you could realy help out there. Something you could do is say if some brings a revanent in a 1800pt game the opponent gets an extra 500pts sort of a reverse comp so people can bring there big toys but there is still some fairness to it, limit it to only one unit with a ranged D weapon ect. Making those sort of things as part of the info and people could be far more likely to jump on board, I know I would be and I'm someone who has just got rid of my main army's for the last couple of years because of the direction 40k has gone. Just my thoughts

Oh PS no chance in hell of me doing a you use my models event for the same reasons mike said


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:58 am 
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Kay. So I was being pretty negative before. But I had a think about it and actually had an idea that might help you.

This is specifically aimed at targeting minors (hello, FBI).

One of the biggest barriers for entry in to tournament 40k for young people (aside from, you know, the actual cost of the army) is usually just straight up nerves. No one wants to roll up to an event, get their face pounded in, then go home. And let's face it (stereotyping inbound), the kids that love 40k aren't the kids that spend a lot of their time playing sports and learning to win and lose with grace. Especially if you come from a smaller community like a club into a larger one like the state tournament scene, as club players can be very forgiving and don't tend to stress things like redundancy in lists and the game rarely has any stakes behind it.

So going from friendly games with whatever you like to take against people you know to tournament games against complete strangers wielding ridiculous lists can be incredibly intimidating, especially if you're young and they're an adult. It's compounded by the idea that if you've never been to a tournament and played through that sort of structure before, it is all new and also intimidating. Social outcasts, rocking up to huge halls full of people, often by themselves, even though those people speak the same language, is scary.

So, ages ago when I still cared about the kids at our club going to outside 40k events, I started training them with a tournament structure I ended up calling Rapid Fire. The tournaments themselves had the lowest barrier to entry I could think of. Free. They were only open to players under the age of 18 to keep the kids playing at a roughly equivalent skill level and mindset but the tournament structure itself mimicked PAGS' larger events, which were designed as hardcore tournament events. So the idea was to get the kids used to going through the motions of planning their army list, testing it, painting it, arriving on the day and playing through the games, participating in the scoring and going through the results to get to the podium finish, just with kids close to their own age and with nothing really to lose by attending (and the possibility of a shiny trophy at the end). The benefits included it being easy enough to attend and participate in (the games were only 500 points and entry was free) and because it was a single day event, it meant the kids only had to plan to attend one day, rather than play through a league or campaign.

As a short post mortem, Rapid Fire only ever ran two or three events before PAGS stopped running 40k tournos, Had our playerbase stuck with the system, I'd still be running them. But if I was going to change anything, it would be the location. I suggest centralising it somewhere near the CBD and public transport. Mandurah was just too far for kids without accomodating parents to travel and the attendance at the events usually comprised of our guys plus Armadale's younger crew (for the record, pretty sure Owen won the last one right before he turned 18). I still like the idea and if we get another system coming along where the playerbase is at the same point it was with 40k, I'll probably pick it up again under a different name.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:50 am 
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I remember your Rapid Fire events Dave, they seemed like a neat idea :) what was your attendance like? Did it work in getting more 18- interested in tourneys?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:11 am 
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I think a doubles event where experienced players are randomly teamed up with new blood to learn the ropes could work. Be a good way to introduce new players to tournaments.
This hinges on the mentor player not taking the game seriously and being nice though so could backfire.

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