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netEA - the way it is played in Perth - WestGamer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:02 am 
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So I was reading a thread (http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ ... =4&t=29297) on tac comms about the five minute warmup, and discovered that the way we (myself, beanpole and kadeton) have been playing here at my house is quite different to the "general way" epic is played in Perth!

Rather than spam up that thread with WA specific issues, I thought I'd post here and find out from the community how the game is played here in the land of milk and honey.
Quote:
6.1.3 The Five Minute Warm Up
Q: Is there a complete list of what to cover in the five minute warm up?
A:
1. Should you dice for each ability used at the start of the turn?
2. Are transported units considered to be in specific transporting units of their formation?
3. When disembarking, are transported units placed completely within 5cm of the transport unit or just so one part of the transported unit is within 5cm of the transport unit?
4. When does a unit count as being in cover?
5. How many units can claim cover from a armoured vehicle, war engine, or terrain feature?
6. Does the charging formation need to get within 15cm of the original target or can it get within 15cm of any intermingled formation?
7. How are attacks with special abilities like ignore cover and lance allocated in an assault?
8. Is it possible to air assault into a formation which is completely covered by the zone of control of another formation?
9. Where should measurements for capturing/contesting an objective be made from?
10. What house rules do you normally play with?
11. Are you using the counts as rule?
12. What is your army capable of (units, weapons and special rules)?
I've added the numbers for easy discussion, though 12 clearly isn't that relevant here.

So, tell me please, how do we play here?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:43 pm 
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Quite a few of those have answers in the rules, are you only after the common answers to the remainder?
(eg "How many units can claim cover from a armoured vehicle, war engine, or terrain feature?" 2, 2 per DC, as many as can place a part of their base in the terrain, with a few a specific exceptions like bunkers and trenches).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Ok, here goes! :D
I'm only going to give an answer for the more commonly asked questions.
Quote:
2. Are transported units considered to be in specific transporting units of their formation?
Yes. It's really important to keep track of exactly where you transported troops are. It's hard enough to kill Fearless Commissars but when they miraculously always happen to be in the last Chimera, it can get a little tiring. It may be more work for the player but it's the only fair way to play this.
Quote:
3. When disembarking, are transported units placed completely within 5cm of the transport unit or just so one part of the transported unit is within 5cm of the transport unit?
As far as I'm aware, it is only in parts of North America that the entire base of disembarking troops needs to be completely with 5cm. There are situations where it would be all but impossible to be completely within 5cm (Ork Landers, Krieg Gorgon etc). The wording for disembarking (within 5cm) is the same as that used for the Commander special rule (within 5cm). The North Americans play it their way because they consider it an unfair advantage to the long thin bases (over the square bases). The advantage is real but small so it has generally been considered unimportant.
Quote:
4. When does a unit count as being in cover?
Infantry are considered in cover if any part of the base is overlapping the terrain (or in base contact if agreed with your opponent beforehand). AV/WE's are considered in contact if they have taken a Dangerous Terrain Test or are actually overlapping the terrain feature (WE's in a river for example).
Quote:
5. How many units can claim cover from a armoured vehicle, war engine, or terrain feature?
As Matt mentioned, it's generally considered to be 2 units per DC. So it would be 6 in base contact with a Warhound. 2 in base contact with a Chimera etc. Terrain is different. It's basically as many as you can fit (with the exception of fortified positions which have specific rules attached to them).
Quote:
6. Does the charging formation need to get within 15cm of the original target or can it get within 15cm of any intermingled formation?
As per the rules, an attacker declares a target formation first and then declares any intermingled formations as part of the engagment. We have always played that the charging formation needs to get within 15cm of the original target.
Quote:
7. How are attacks with special abilities like ignore cover and lance allocated in an assault?
In the absence of detailed rules for these abilities, I believe that the example of MW/TK attacks should be followed. i.e. these attacks should be resolved after normal attacks.
Quote:
8. Is it possible to air assault into a formation which is completely covered by the zone of control of another formation?
Yes. The rules actually do allow this but the UK Epic scene has disallowed it. As far as I'm aware, they are generally the only group that has disallowed it.
Quote:
9. Where should measurements for capturing/contesting an objective be made from?
General convention is to the centre of the take and hold objectives and to the board edge (middle) of the blitz objectives.
Quote:
10. What house rules do you normally play with?
Things like CAPing enemy CAP is a house rule and generally not played here.
Quote:
12. What is your army capable of (units, weapons and special rules)?
This is to try and prevent those gotcha moments when a special rule over-rides the rules (think Necron Living Metal which nerfs TK attacks and the Space Wolves Pack Mentality rule which is REALLY horrible to forget! ).

Hope that all helps.
For background on my answers, I am the NetEA Rules chair which means I compile/edit/amend the FAQ for the NetEA group.
This doesn't mean I'm always right but it does mean I've read the rules cover to cover and I have an appointed group of experienced players (from all over the world) to help keep the FAQ up to date.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:50 pm 
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What he said!

"the Space Wolves Pack Mentality rule which is REALLY horrible to forget!" - I have the photo of the moment when Steve was reminded of that lovely little fluffy rule at Cancon :D


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:02 pm 
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Thanks guys. I think it is only keeping track of who is in what vehicle and disembarking within/wholly within that we were playing differently.

Chris, I was thinking about this. I reckon the easiest way to handle the bookkeeping is to have a discreet number painted on each tank, and a piece of paper off board with the same numbers and passengers touching the appropriate number. Done well, it could double as your pack-up unit box - perhaps as simple as a small tackle box?

You will need to rebase your dudes on long bases and enjoy your extra 4cm of charge and countercharge range.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Quote:
You will need to rebase your dudes on long bases and enjoy your extra 4cm of charge and countercharge range.
And become easier to hit with blasts, less easy to fit around enemy scout screens and harder to fit in cover. There are enough pros and cons to both types of bases to make it worth just doing whichever you prefer.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:50 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
You will need to rebase your dudes on long bases and enjoy your extra 4cm of charge and countercharge range.
And become easier to hit with blasts, less easy to fit around enemy scout screens and harder to fit in cover. There are enough pros and cons to both types of bases to make it worth just doing whichever you prefer.
I have to admit my entire decision making process for what kind of bases to use was to use what the models were already on when I bought them!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:55 pm 
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The other way of keeping track of who is in what vehicle is putting that stand on top of the relative vehicle

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:26 pm 
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or u could have a vehicle painted with specific markings or differing paint scheme to denote those used by characters, eg Space Marine Commander has a rhino with different markings or chimera painted up differently to represent the Commisar's personal chariot...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:31 pm 
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For space marines or guard, it's not hard at all. Just mark or point out your character's ride.

Orks, though, need to keep track of characters, Nobz, Boyz and Grotz. What techniques have you guys used in the past to do so? Balancing all the stands on the vehicles send like it would make movement a pain.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:07 am 
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Quote:
For space marines or guard, it's not hard at all. Just mark or point out your character's ride.

Orks, though, need to keep track of characters, Nobz, Boyz and Grotz. What techniques have you guys used in the past to do so? Balancing all the stands on the vehicles send like it would make movement a pain.
Yeah, for my Guard I think I'll just use a purple trim for the Commander and red trim for the Commissar. That's simple and will look kind of cool on the field, I think.

Orks are a bit of a nightmare, though. Orks have the added complication of empty transports that are taken as a buffer. So potentially a transport could be empty, have one or two boyz, one or two grotz, one or two nobz, a boy and either a nob or grot, or a nob and a grot. That's 11 different possible combinations for each transport, so no paint scheme or unit marking can possibly control that, and even if it did it'd fall apart once the unit assaulted something and took casualties.

Maybe a solution might be to mark each transport with a sequence number, and then keep a seperate card that you'd place the transported troops on, with spots for each transport. So for instance you have three transports marked 1, 2 and 3, and two boyz and two nobz getting transported. On the card you'd put the two boyz stands in space 1, the two nobz stands in space 2, and leave space 3 blank. When transport 3 got blown up you'd note that one was empty, then when transport 1 got blown up you'd note that had the boyz in it, and then roll their saves.

Would that work?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:37 am 
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That could work, but you might find it's not as necessary as you imagine. The vast majority of players keep the orks outside their transports at the end of each move, giving the infantry a cover save for being in contact with a vehicle and preventing additional casualties should the transport be destroyed.
This means the units are visible on the table, so it's easy to see which is which.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Quote:
That could work, but you might find it's not as necessary as you imagine. The vast majority of players keep the orks outside their transports at the end of each move, giving the infantry a cover save for being in contact with a vehicle and preventing additional casualties should the transport be destroyed.
This means the units are visible on the table, so it's easy to see which is which.
I do that with my guard, but I didn't know people did it with orks. I'd have thought because orks are all about the assault, and really want to assault in to btb contact, the extra movement you get from starting in the transport would have been really important. Interesting.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Interesting discussion!

Yeah, the Ork transport thing was bugging me when I was trying out an all-mounted Ghazghkull list, which predominantly meant Battlewagons with two Boyz/Nobz/Commander and a stand of Grotz each. They definitely weren't disembarking at the end of movement - there's almost no defensive advantage to doing so (additional casualties from exploding transports are about the same as additional casualties from AP shooting or blasts, in many cases), it makes you massively vulnerable to clipping assaults, and you can't mount an effective assault yourself.

I'd check with my opponent and see if they were comfortable with me tracking the "important" units - Nobz, etc - and having the Boyz and Grotz float around in a transport pool. If not, I'd probably have to just put the units near their relevant transport, and constantly remind my opponent that they were in the wagons, not actually on the board.

Fortunately, my current list has no transports other than Landas, so it won't be an issue for the tournament. Now if only I could get my hands on some extra Flakwagons...


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