So, rather than take over Brooksey's thread completely, I thought it might be handy to just post random lists for feedback/critique in here. All and sundry feel free.

Yu Jing | 9 models
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Shang Ji Lieutenant (42|0)
Domaru Shotgun (36|0)
Zhanshi Combi (11|0)
Zhanshi Combi (11|0)
Zhanshi Combi (11|0)
Aragoto Spitfire (29|1.5)
Aragoto Combi (25|0)
Daofei HMG (61|2)
Celestial Guard Spitfire (20|1)
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246/250 points | 4.5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/NzZo3u

All this needs is the starter box, some motorbikes and a Daofei with the HMG.

Or an ALEPH list...

Aleph - Steel Phalanx | 8 models
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Eudoros Lt (40|0.5)
Myrmidon Officer Combi CC (39|1)
Myrmidon Hacker (37|0.5)
Myrmidon Shotgun (25|0)
Thorakites LRL (25|1)
Agema ML (38|1.5)
Thorakites Eng (20|0)
Myrmidon Combi (25|0)
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249/250 points | 4.5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/sDWd9k

That would require the steel phalanz starter and a box of Myrmidons. With some mini's spare.

Feedback?

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"There are some people who think less is more. Warhammer, conversely, believes that more is always more."

"Cry "Havoc!!", and let slip the dogs of war" Julius Caesar; Act III, Scene I

Hey no worries at all, I was enjoying the alternative lists being thrown in. I may return the favour anyway

_________________
Remember: Low Standards = More Success

I did use ShangJi Lt once back then. Found it to be a bit of a waste as Lt. He is really someone you'd want to throw to the frontline without worrying whether he's going to die or not. So I'd suggest the Celestial Guard as Lt (WIP 14 is better than 13).

Back then...I was quite taken with Tiger soldiers, rather than Aragoto. They're cheap (relatively) MI & in your face with the HMG. If I were to start with the Yujing starter, I'd probably go for:

YU JING
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 0

ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
SHÀNG JÍ Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 47)
DOMARU Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (36)
GŬILÁNG MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
TIGER SOLDIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
TIGER SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (31)
TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (14)

5 SWC | 248 Points

Open with Army 4

Shang Ji is proxying Spitfire instead of using combi/multi-rifle. This means you'll only need to buy Yujing starter set + duo-Tiger blister + Guilang sniper + Tokusetsu blister.

And you'll end up with 2 x AD:Combat Jump, a camo infiltrator with MSR, and a doctor. Plus Shang Ji & Domaru for assaulting enemy line the traditional way.

While there are some things that I agree with here that Aulia's suggested (having the Shang Ji free to run about and murder all of the faces), keeping the motorbikes should be great fun and let you play a really agressive game. The Celestial Guard makes for a great lieutenant, too. That leads me to suggest the following list, which is a variation on the same theme

Yu Jing | 10 models
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Celestial Guard Lieutenant (13|0)
Zhanshi Combi (11|0)
Zhanshi Combi (11|0)
Zhanshi Combi (11|0)
Celestial Guard Spitfire (20|1)
Aragoto Combi (25|0)
Aragoto Spitfire (29|1.5)
Daofei HMG (61|2)
Shang Ji Combi (42|0)
Domaru Chain (27|0)
________________________________________________________

250/250 points | 4.5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/69AKyc


Mostly, it's just changing around the Lieutenants, and downgrading the Domaru from the Shotgun wielding samurai to the Chain Rifle wielding samurai - the army was lacking any direct template weapons before, and with a BS of 12, the boarding shotgun on the Domaru is an expensive (if not cool, because that is by far the better model) choice. This also lets us squeeze 10 models in, which gives you an extra order, not to be sneezed at.

In terms of making this list able to deal with objectives and the like, you can drop the Celestial Guard with Spitfire for a Tokusetsu engineer and 2 helper-bots, which means that you've got some easy expansion here. I don't think you'll need it too much, though, because you've only got two heavy infantry to be concerned with, and plenty of early aggro to help keep some of that pressure off.

And because I got 5 minutes free, random list created based on Hassassin Bahram starter box + Muyib box + Hassassin Barid blister.

HASSASSIN BAHRAM
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 0 0

LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (33)
RAGIK Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (30)
MUYIB (X Visor) Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)
MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 34)
MUYIB Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
MUYIB Doctor Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (27)
MUYIB Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)
BARID (Forward Observer) Lieutenant Rifle + Marker / Pistol, Knife. (17)

5 SWC | 249 Points

Open with Army 4

Basically everything (Lasiq, Fiday, Muyib link team, and even the Raqik) are useful for offensive purpose. The Barid is...well...he's pretty cheap Lt for Hassassin sectorial.

This will be the last list I make, I swear

Ariadna | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Zouave Rifle (20|0.5)
Para-Commando HMG (32|1)
TankHunter Autocannon (40|1.5)
Uxìa SupInf (25|0)
Intel Rifle (+1 bs, +1 ph, Panzerfaust, CH: Mimetism) (9|0|12xp)
Isobel McGregor AP (23|0.5)
Moblot Infiltrator AP (42|0)
Moblot Lieutenant (28|0)
Métro Camo DEP (12|0.5)
Métro Camo LGL (16|1)
________________________________________________________

247/250 points | 5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/X7rB3N

The intent is to start pretty close to the opponent via Mech Deployment, infiltrate and have a variety of Camouflage tricks as well. On a model by model basis:
- Moblots look reasonably solid in a mid range firefight. The Lt can wander around the backline and plug holes while the panzerfaust equipped can provide some early threats against big things.
- The Metros are capable of deplyment in most places and with camo, they should be that bit more resilient and useful than their cheaper equivalent. Light Grenade Launcher brings speculative fire into the mix as well (another thing I feel I should learn).
- Tankhunter is badass.
- Uxia for disruption. Also, firing 5 shot bursts is pretty insane for face to face rolls so if she can isolate one, and they aren't heavily armoured... Do I smell toast?
- Isobel I have no real role for. I'm guessing hacking is a thing I should learn about though so in it went. Plus, model is rather cool.
- Para Commando provides some late game assistance and a big gun at that. Switching up the angles could really help remove snipers as well so there's a plus.

Any thoughts? I found without Wulvers that I suddenly had alot of points spare and was struggling to keep it to 10models (10 is more of a cap so I remember this is a skirmish game).

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Remember: Low Standards = More Success

Unless I'm mistaken, Isobel McGregor is also a Spec Ops model, so she would take the place of the spec ops choice that you've made. As for hacking in Ariadna, too, there's not a lot of need for it - the only thing it would let you do is hack incoming guided missiles, and while that's a good thing to be able to do, it isn't often that you face those.

Other than that, all I can comment on is that Tank Hunters are the duck's nuts, and Uxia is a total beast - she's one of the very few models that have superior infiltration, and that is such a strong rule that I cannot suggest you make full use of enough


I've decided, in the interest of being able to play with a fully painted army, that I'll be taking my Yu Jing to Paradiso Firefights 2. Unlike the last time, though, I'll be taking vanilla, rather than the Japanese Sectorial.

First list:
Yu Jing | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Celestial Guard Lieutenant (13|0)
Celestial Guard Smoke LGL (13|0.5)
Kuang Shi Chain (5|0)
Kuang Shi Chain (5|0)
Guǐ Fēng Combi (+1 bs, Spitfire, Engineer, Hacker (Hacking Device)) (13|0|12xp)
Yaozao (3|0)
Keisotsu Combi (9|0)
Keisotsu HMG (18|0.5)
Hac Tao HMG (67|2)
Hsien HMG (61|2)
Karakuri Mk12 (43|0)
________________________________________________________

250/250 points | 5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/W0vYpZ


A fairly straightforward list that packs in 3 HMGs and a Spitfire. I can do smoke tricks with the Hsien, the Hac Tao has the TO Camo for surpise attacks, the Karakuri spearheads the assault, not caring about most ammo types while having a decent chance of success against most targets with the Mk12. I'd really like a higher ROF weapon on them, because their BS is only 12, but as the hard working model in the list that should be clearing out the enemy's lighter foes, the Mk12 gives me some ranged options that out-threat standard rifles and combi-rifles. Depending on how it plays though, I might swap that out for the combi-rifle version, which lets me upgrade the standard Keisotsu to a Paramedic Keisotsu.

List 2:
Yu Jing | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Celestial Guard Lieutenant (13|0)
Celestial Guard Smoke LGL (13|0.5)
Kuang Shi Chain (5|0)
Kuang Shi Chain (5|0)
Kuang Shi Chain (5|0)
Daofei HMG (61|2)
Hsien HMG (61|2)
Oniwaban (44|0)
Guilang Minelayer (26|0.5)
Guǐ Fēng Combi (Spitfire, Engineer, Hacker (Hacking Device), Doctor) (13|0|12xp)
Yaozao (3|0)
________________________________________________________

249/250 points | 5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/ud6KSC

This list is the one that wants to tackle enemies that are running TAGs or a couple of key heavy infantry pieces. While it seems fairly similar to the first list, the Daofei has infiltration and normal camo, letting him play more agressively, but without such a distinct advantage in a stand-up firefight. Along with the Guilang, they're to clear a path for the Oniwaban to cut open TAGs or serious Heavy Infantry that a surprise burst of HMG can't deal with. Because the Hsien is probably going to have to play a more critical role in this list as my primary beatstick that sits around my back lines, I figured that having the doctor upgrade on my Spec Ops was more useful than the extra BS. Being able to keep him alive for longer, and especially being able to repair a single lost wound on him, should help the list stick around a bit longer if my infiltrators fail to do their thing.


So, what do you guys think? Would you feel comfortable facing a list like this/ know the tools that you'd need to tackle it? They're both similar to the lists I ran both last night and Monday night, and it seems to be a list design that's working for me at the moment, so I'm pretty confident with how they should both play.

Hmm, yes that's a shame.
I got the impression that Hackers could hack all kinds of things - TAGs, HI, airborne drop ships, etc. Are defensive hackers restricted to only defensive hacking?

With the Hacker out, this means I can now get a Chasseur sniper in. Funnily enough, I think I like this way better. I can learn about Hackers later

Ariadna | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Zouave Rifle (20|0.5)
Para-Commando HMG (32|1)
TankHunter Autocannon (40|1.5)
Uxìa SupInf (25|0)
Intel Rifle (+1 bs, +1 ph, Panzerfaust, CH: Mimetism) (9|0|12xp)
Moblot Infiltrator AP (42|0)
Moblot Lieutenant (28|0)
Métro Camo DEP (12|0.5)
Métro Camo DC (11|0)
Chasseur Sniper (31|1)
________________________________________________________

250/250 points | 4.5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/yNOXma

_________________
Remember: Low Standards = More Success

You can hack powered armour and tags, but might want to check the wiki. There are all sorts of different levels of things..

Also check the stats. the nomads that I was playing could hack with good stats from miles away (repeaters and things) if you can only hack something within 5" and with a crap stat I wouldn't bother :/

Also you need them for campaign stuff, Simmos saying the spec ops are the way to go but I haven't looked at that book yet... :P

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Currently working on : Ten tremendous trollkin tuffalo

Yeah, a defensive hacking device is "A limited Hacking device which only allows performance of Defensive Mode Hacking, Controlling a Remote and Hacking Security and Information." Straight from the wiki's page.

Hacking offensively lets you shut down Heavy Infantry (except for Ariadna's), TAGS, a second consecutive successful hacking attempt gives you control of the TAG, and lets you make direct hacking attacks at other hackers, burning out their brains along with the neural implants that go with hacking devices As for campaign objectives, you just need specialist troops, so either a hacker, engineer or doctor (and most of the Paradiso ones specify either a hacker or an engineer).

As for the list, from what I know of Ariadna, that seems quite solid!

As this is for random lists, this one I have wanted to try for a little while but haven't got a chance to try it:
Combined Army - Shasvastii Expeditionary Force | 9 models
________________________________________________________

Aswuang Lieutenant (25|0)
Sheskiin (47|0)
Cadmus LGL (28|1)
Cadmus Combi (23|0)
Shrouded Hacker (36|0.5)
Noctifer Spitfire (30|1.5)
Shrouded Sniper (38|1.5)
Ikadron (9|0)
Seed-Soldier Combi (14|0)
________________________________________________________

250/250 points | 4.5/5 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/lcYFz0

Because turn one is setting up a crazy 3 Achilles statline units, from which torment everything from turn 2 onwards while eating them. Also the Noctifier and Shrouded are there to reinforce the front line, though in more defensive than offence.

Instead of hacking something, trying applying an autocannon or an AP HMG directly to the problem.
If that fails, an adhesive launcher from camo will usually do the trick.

The list looks fine, with a nice mix of dudemans. Although it needs more Russians for my tastes.

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My office! Burgled, plundered, purloined!
Ha ha... loins.
Phil ken Sebben

In soviet Ariadna, Infinity plays you

I thought I'd try for subtle. Oh well, back to the beatstick mentality.
I have the dudemans on order. Now featuring women!

_________________
Remember: Low Standards = More Success

What should be said about Ariadna, like previous generals of past you can send wave after wave of troops until the machine gun fire blocked by their corpses. Also what is a hacking device? this auto cannon can hack it to pieces fine, though failing that some dog soldiers can actually use their axes to hack as well.